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Yeah, so, I kinda need help.


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Offline Azure

Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« on: January 05, 2008, 02:24:04 pm »
I've been playing SA(DX) for a while now, and I've made it to the orange zone, so I've decided to work on other heavily-weighted games like SA2(B) and SHeroes. I don't really know much about the gameplay mechanics of theses games, so any help would be appreciated.
Some of my worst areas are:
SA2(B) scores: Do you want high rings and a bad time or a great time and low rings? And then there's enemies to figure in too...
SA2(B) glitches: Any I should know about? (remember: I have dial-up so videos are slow.)
SHeroes times: I'm not very fast, except in Grand Metropolis.

Please help, unless you want to tell me what Tikal thinks. (Magnezone/SkyLights)

Offline Thorn

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Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 02:36:28 pm »
SA2 scores, although I can't earn them for shit, are easy to calculate. Rings are worth 10 points each just for touching them, as are item boxes with rings. Shields and power-ups are worth 200 each, and Invincibility gives you double points (technique points excluded). Enemies are worth 100 to 1000 each. Random objects such as containers are usually worth 10 points for breaking. The Time Bonus is worth 10000 initially, but drops by 20 points for each second taken over one minute.

So to make it simple, you earn good scores in SA2 by making sure you keep an average rate of 20 points per second. If you have to go ten seconds out of your way for one 100 point enemy, ignore it.

Hopefully an SA2 player can give more insight on all that, but those are the mechanics.
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Offline Magnezone

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Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 02:44:36 pm »
You make it seem like I only tell people that Tikal is the greatest being in the entire universe.

I WOULD NOTE THAT I AM ALSO CAPABLE OF GIVING HELPFUL ADVICE THANK YOU VERY MUCH

HMMPH!

Offline Azure

Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 02:47:49 pm »
..ouch..

Well, If I say Tikal is the most amazing being in existence and she PWNS the universe will you help me?

Anyway, I have nothing against Tikal, it's just these strange obsessions with female sonic characters that get me.

Offline Azure

Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2008, 02:53:16 pm »
BWOW




sorry just needed to do that

Offline Spinballwizard

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Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2008, 02:53:58 pm »
Only the gold beetle is worth 1000. One per level.

Best way to score is to bash as many enemies in as little time as possible with the most possible rings on the fast route. Time is key though, as the time bonus is one of the bigger contributors. (That and enemies.) Make sure you find (and kill) the Gold Beetle and then just combo as many enemies as possible.

Hunting missions are a pain, I'll warn you. You ultimately want perfects on each piece (200 points each) when possible, plus rings and some enemies. Problem being is that you have to do it in one life, so placement is key. And you can't control that.

As for glitches... some of them aren't useful, but SM's compilations should have most everything you need to know about (though note that most of them are Dreamcast-only. Check his text guide -- linked with the videos -- for details, or check out the Version Differences Guide to look for the relevant ones.

Glitch vids (courtesy of SM):
The Original
The Unnamed Seqeuel
G&T 2 1/2: A few more
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Offline Magnezone

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Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2008, 02:56:24 pm »
Well SA2 and Heroes aren't really in my proficiency so I can't offer much advice anyway :(

Though I have gathered that it helps in SA2 scores to know where all the trick bonuses are (the Good, Great, ect point bonuses without using enemies). Combine that with a healthy balance between time and score and that's the general strat to get a high-score. Some games (this probably doesn't apply to SA2) have levels that have far more potential points by just destroying everything in the level and collecting all the rings then heading to the goal; most of the time you do that strategy while ring attacking...

Offline Shadow Jacky

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Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2008, 03:17:47 pm »
SA2 and SH scoring is kinda the same, except in SH you dont go for rings as much since everything in that game (except for rings and objects) give out way more points than SA2. 

You always want a good balance in speed and comboing when doing both, but on certain stages, its best to know where everything is to get the most out of a level.
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Offline Stefan

Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 03:59:05 pm »
Alright, sonic adventure 2 scores are totally different from sonic adventure dx..

I'll try and sum it up for you, but don't expect to be leader just off of this. Basically, rings are much, much, MUCH less sueful than in SADX. Enemies will be your main points.

The basics: on every level (well, almost every) there is a golden beetle. he's worth 1000 points. Killing all other enemies either gives you a 100 or 200 point score boost, depending on the enemy. There is a trick to getting higher scores off of these enemies, though. By killing multiple enemies in succession (either by gliding into them with the gliders, homing attacking with sonic/shadow, or locking on to them with eggman/tails), you get a sort of "trick bonus". for example, if you kill 2 enemies in succession, you get a "good". This good bonus is worth 100 points on your score, in addition to the extras for killing the enemies. If you kill 3 enemies, you get a "nice" worth 200 points. For 4, it's a "great". for 5, it's a "jammin" worth 400. Killing 6 nets you a "cool" for 500. Seven enemies gets a "radical" for 600 points. 8 gets a tights for 800, 9 gets an awesome for 1000, 10 gets an extreme for 1500, and 11+ gets a perfect for 2000 points.

By linking together enemies, your score increases significantly. For example, locking on to 10 enemies will get you 1000 in individual points from the enemies and a 1500 bonus from the "extreme". That's 2500 easy points for your score!

The other things that give points are shields (worth 200 each), rings (worth 10 each, significantly lesser in value than in sadx), time (20 points a second. time bonus is maxed at 1 minute, and you lose 20 points a second after that), and anything else you can get from a capsule, such as extra lives or speed shoes (worth 200 each).

Generally, for all the levels, the idea is to kill as many enemies, get as many shields/extralives, and get as many rings as you can (that aren't out of your way!) in the least amount of time possible. For different types of characters, however, the strategies tend to differ. I'll split it into hunting characters (rouge/knuckles), speed characters (sonic/shadow), and shooting characters (eggman/tails).

Hunting Characters - Alright, the main thing that separates hunting characters from the rest of the characters is the fact that there is no clear, linear path to the goal. Every time you play the level, you have to do a different thing. Because of this, you can't just kill everything in your path and stumble your way onto the goal.

The second main difference is, of course, the emeralds. These emeralds give points to your score and can be the crucial factor in a high or low score. They are a unique mechanic with unique scoring. Basically, if you find the emerald in one minute or less without using hints, you get a perfect 2000 bonus (plus the 200 the emerald itself gives). After one minute is up, it becomes an awesome. After some arbitrary period after that, it drops even more. Using hints also drops the score you get for the emerald. Once you get an emerald, the time limit resets, and you have another minute before yoru new emerald's perfect is expired. Basically, for a top score, you want to get all three emeralds in less than a minute each, using zero hints.

That alone isn't enough, though. Getting three perfects is only 6000 points! You need to kill enemies, collect rings, and get other score boosters on your way to three perfects. And for the highest score, you'll need to do it all in less than a minute!

How can you maximize your scores? There are two things you'll need to do.
a.) you'll need to memorize the locations of easy to get emeralds, and hope these show up in your run.
b.) find the most point-condensed "route" through the level. This route should contain lots of enemies, rings, shields, lives, and all that good stuff that you can kill on your way to finding these emeralds.

Naturally, it will take a lot of time and persistence. But with some luck and effort, you can get some really nice hunting scores!

Speed Characters - Ah, yes. These are my personal favorite characters to score attack as, significantly more so than hunting characters. Anyway, there is, like in hunting, a score mechanic unique to speed characters. This mechanic is known (by me anyway) as "trick points". Basically, on certain levels, for killing enemies in a time limit, grinding rails, doing tricks off of ramps, somersaulting under barriers, or pretty much anything you can think of, you can get "trick points". and easy to check this out yourself is  to do a trick off the ramp at the beginning of city escape. You get either a "cool" or "awesome", just like the enemy killing bonus. The difference is just that you did it without killing enemies! These are scattered all throughout the sonic and shadow levels, and are almost essential to a top score.

I know you said you have slow internet, so these links may not be of use to you. I did, however, videotape all the trick points found in certain levels of the game and they could be very helpful to anyone's score. The videos can be found at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7m0QRm7uaA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oAhitKjeig

Anyway, the main goal for score attacking speed character levels is to maximize enemies, rings, capsules, and trick point collection in the least time possible. I would encourage you to check out guides or discover on your own many of the shortcuts and speed tricks in the level, as these will allow you to get significantly higher time bonuses.

Oh, and remember what I said about the enemy bonuses, earlier? Shadow can only link enemies by using either homing attack or light attack (though this is only really useful in one level). Sonic, on the other hand, will maintain combo just by bouncing. If you have homing attacked a combination of enemies together, and you're JUST too far away to homing attack a few more, you can just bounce attack your way over and homing attack from there.

Shooting Characters - Shooting Characters are at the same time both the simplest to score attack and the most difficult to get a high score on. The basic  strategy for a mech character score attack is to kill every enemy in sight by locking on to high numbers at a time. Since almost any enemy can be locked on to, and some can be locked on to more than once (hornets), high scores are very easily obtainable.

There are only a few things that need to be said here (well, mostly because it's not my area of expertise).
a.) Your lockon runs out after some amount of time. If you accidentally hold on too long, it can really hamper your time bonus and, subsequently, your score.
b.) locking on to more than 11 enemies is no better than locking on to 11. You get the same 2000 bonus for locking on to 30 as you do for locking on to 11. you may as well get some extra lockons for your buck.
c.) You want to lock on almost every enemy in an area into one lockon (unless it goes over 11). It can sometimes be difficult to stretch out that awesome into a perfect, but it's worth it for your score.

Well, I attempted to make a detailed post for you. I'm not sure it's as long at I expected it to be (it actually seems like I know much less than I do). Regardless, I hope there's enough info in here for you to get some very good sa2 score attacks. I didn't directly answer your question, so I guess I will now: Time is more important than rings, but don't be afraid to get 10/20 capsules.

Anyway, hope this helps. If not you, maybe it will help someone else.

Offline Shadow Jacky

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Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2008, 04:26:22 pm »
also let me add, READ THE RULES ABOUT SCORE ATTACKING!
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Offline Mo

Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2008, 06:36:22 pm »
For SH times use rocket accel and slide in the right areas and try to use as many shortcuts as you can in the stage.For team dark use chaos control in the right areas to cut off tons of time.

For SH scores try to balance time and killing enemies and if there is a huge group of enemies in some places(usual more than 6)try to kill the first 5 to get the 2000 bonus and when the 2000 bonus appears kill the others to get a massive point boost.
Shortcuts I have discovered: SSR Skeleton Dome Mission 12 Gate ditch, SA2 Battle: spring dodge.

Offline Pokemonmaster888

Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2008, 07:19:54 pm »
I'll just give you a few last helpful hints for Time Attacking in Sonic Heroes. Along the lines of a glitch, there is something called the "door phase", which can allow you to pass through an unopened door. You can also pass through some laser barriers, with it. Here is a video of the technique, and hopefully your internet connection allows you to see it. If not, then someone will explain it for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--CqbgcwaT0

Also, always try to think of many ways of what you are going to do before trying to get a fast time, and plan, and practice. It will probably make you more successful, and you won't waste time.
     

Offline JBertolli

Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2008, 08:46:36 pm »
Here's some stuff for Heroes:

Times: Rocket accel a lot and plan your routes so you have a fast one. For Dark, you will want to kill more enemies and collect more rings than the others, so you will get Team Blasts.

Scores: Never kill more than 5 enemies at one time (unless there are only six in the area). When you kill 5, wait for the 2000 bonus to come up, and then kill the rest. If you kill 5, then 2, you will get 2000 plus 400, rather than just 2000 (killing all 7 at once). Also get any ring dashes that are possible. You can get bonus points from them if there are 4 or more rings in the row. And yeah, there is a score guide for the rest.

Rings: Practice any rainbow rings in the level. Get all three in the rings for 13 (or 14). For Chaotix, NEVER kill an enemy unless it is with Team Blast. Killing an enemy with team blast gives you a random ring container (5, 10, or 20). But you can kill them if you TB bar is emptying.

And I know nothing of bosses.

Offline Mo

Re: Yeah, so, I kinda need help.
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2008, 03:34:55 pm »
For Bosses try to level power and fly to their max level and don't worry about leveling your speed characters and it all depends on the type of boss you are fighting

Here the characters to level up for each boss

Egg Hawk:Nobody gets leveled up and just use Fire Dunk on him to kill him fast

Team Boss 1:Try to use fly to knock them out really fast and don't level up anybody.

Robot Carnival:Level up power and fly to their max level to beat this boss fast

Egg Albatross:Don't level up anybody and first use speed to destroy the bottom part of his body and use power formation and fire dunk and also make him to come back to you to finish him off really fast

Team Boss 2:Mostly use fly formation to knock them out really fast.

Robot Storm:Mostly level up power and use team blast in the right areas.

Egg Emperor:Balance some speed and level up fly to level 2 and know how to do the thundershoot glitch to finish him off quickly.

Metal Madness:Mostly use power and fly formation and add some speed to knock this boss out really fast.
Shortcuts I have discovered: SSR Skeleton Dome Mission 12 Gate ditch, SA2 Battle: spring dodge.

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