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How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?


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Offline Brian

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #210 on: November 30, 2008, 02:10:19 pm »
I'm with final, I doubt that shortcut can be something diferent that what final said. Think: If a minute can be saved then a single wall won't be enough to cut this amount of time IMO.
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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #211 on: November 30, 2008, 02:19:21 pm »
Thanks FR7! It is a big relief, heck yeah. And no matter what crazy time SM gets, 2:06 and 2:07 are still great times.

I agree with you both, it can't just be only a wall jump, I mean what is he going to do.. jump through the wall at the end(CWS) and save a tenth of a second? :P

My best guess is plays the level for maybe 5-20 seconds, jumps and falls somewhere, and dodges death zones and lands on, or near the goal ring. But an invisible path is definitely the next most logical guess.

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #212 on: November 30, 2008, 03:07:16 pm »

I hope this helps. I think it's pretty accurate



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Offline SadisticMystic

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #213 on: November 30, 2008, 03:59:44 pm »
Actually it's more like this:


You start in the upper left yellow square. The ending should be obvious.

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #214 on: November 30, 2008, 04:35:59 pm »
Oh... I see but I can't figure out where is the shortcut anyway. :/
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Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #215 on: November 30, 2008, 04:42:57 pm »
I don't get your picture at all, SM <_<
But anyway, I just hope you get that shortcut down soon.

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Offline EngiNerd

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #216 on: November 30, 2008, 09:37:06 pm »
Through the tower wall!  From both pictures it looks to me a LOT like the goal is fairly close to the spiral tower!  IT'S GENIUS!
Unless I didn't get that at all.  <_<
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Offline X-5

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #217 on: November 30, 2008, 11:33:44 pm »
so I guess I am the only one who is going to be upset if SM screws over final rush? If he finds this ridiculous time cut and it is allowed, I am putting down the controller and I am out of SA2B competition. Forever. Why? Because.. What's next.. city escape in 40 seconds cause you can fall to the goal ring? Is that even fun? Does it prove a damn thing about ones ability? Sooner or later SM is going to ruin all the sonic levels just as he had done so with the hunting ones.  Walker stages.. well he has only ruined eternal engine, thankfully the rest are left alone. But it is just a matter of time until every level can be beaten 3 times faster than it should be only due to a senseless glitch that KILLS the competition and fun of the stage.

Look at SADX, quite a few of the sonic levels are stupid. Final egg doesn't even need rankings cause a sucky player can beat it in 30 seconds with the DC trick, and a good player could get 2:00 something with no ridiculous stage killing glitches and be ranked really low. You may as well eliminate that level altogether, it fails to prove who is the best which is the point of a chart.

Small shortcuts and glitches are okay, going through the wall in hidden base is fine cause it is just a few seconds of a time saver, it does not totally kill the sense of playing the level. Or Green Forest, Brian's new trick is challenging to pull off, and cuts off just 8 seconds. It does not completely destroy the whole entire level. Shortcuts, specifically glitch shortcuts that take out over 40% of the level are just getting all too common in sonic games, and it is killing the fun! Look at Sonic 1, almost every level has had its record cut in half during the past year. I suck at 2D, but I had fun with the game. All the glitch stage killing tricks come in, I haven't even cared enough to bother with them. I will probably never play that game again thanks to that, way to draw in competition!

Before someone says that I am just mad about losing my FR record, I really don't care about not having the record cause I am happy with the 2:07 that I pushed myself to the limit to achieve a nearly flawless time. What I am mad about is, how this will totally destroy the level and levels in the future that SM breaks, and more personally, my and FR7's fun little competition. We had a dream of someday breaking 2:00, the fun way, slowly and surely working our way down finding this and finding that. SM however is just going to come in and find a way to cut out two-thirds of the level and ruin our competitive fun just cause he has to go for the big, ridiculous shortcuts that don't really belong in competition.

One last thing.. yes, it is absolutely amazing that he can study a level so well that he can cut it in half or more, its cool, interesting, and amazing. sure. I am not bashing him for being so intelligent.  I am just saying that they need to be kept out of the real competition! When something destroys the fun and challenge of a level, you are going to upset people like me who do not desire to simply go through a wall and fall to the goal ring or something similar. If need be why not make a glitch/super shortcut division for these tricks, that way everybody can play the level the way they want. And I don't mean freestyle, I mean on the main charts that way you still get points for your crazy tricks. Instead we are forced to use amazing, however competitively BORING tricks to beat the level, or else we won't be worth a damn on the charts. Hardly fair...

In summary, shortcuts are cool, glitchy super cuts SUCK!


« Last Edit: November 30, 2008, 11:41:01 pm by Paragod »

Offline Ring Rush

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #218 on: November 30, 2008, 11:48:05 pm »
No.

What makes a glitch shortcut different than a normal shortcut? Where is the magical threshold that makes a shortcut "unfair" and "ruining a level"? How about those superbounces I know you do in Final Rush: they are ruining the fun of the level and ascending up some of those small rails! If you consider this too small of a section to matter, than what defines "too small"?

Any shortcut can be considered, as you say, "ruining competative fun". If you want to ban huge shortcuts from competitions, you have to ban smaller ones too. In City Escape no doing anything besides running down the building! No skipping the loop in Metal Harbor! In Final Rush take every rail on the path!

Eventually, "competition" will cease to exist. Everyone will be taking the exact same path at the exact same times and any deviance can be considered a shortcut. This will not show mastery of sonic or high-quality ability to speedrun.

Blah, blah, blah; read my post in the other topic. I don't feel like repeating myself and you probably don't feel like re-reading it. But people need to get over this big fear of glitchs. Strategy improvements are how competition works, and one must keep with the times to keep on top. I'm sorry if all your effort goes away and if your great fun is lost, but speedrunning is speedrunning and a slower stat is still a slower stat and should be treated as such.
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Offline EngiNerd

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #219 on: December 01, 2008, 06:54:25 am »
SM also broke Cosmic Wall.
And if we didn't keep him away from it, he'd show us how to fall into the Green Hill 1 signpost in three seconds.
Besides, knowing the stuff he's found so far, it may only work on one console.  Thereby forcing everyone with the wrong console to settle for yellow times.
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Offline SadisticMystic

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #220 on: December 01, 2008, 10:14:40 am »
I just don't see any way the FR trick can work out, so that level is safe for now.

I went ahead and used the technique for something by putting it into a lowscore at hard mode, but even that variation probably won't turn out useful, as I'm sure you can get there by other means in less than 43 seconds. What I really wanted to do was go around the right side of the tower, but hitting the edge of that pink section--regardless of height--led to a fall out every time, so thank Sonic Team for being security-minded at least in one place.

I haven't yet checked to see what other ramifications might be had from variations of the trick, but for all I know every Sonic stage could be up for grabs.

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #221 on: December 01, 2008, 11:49:17 am »
Ah, too bad it doesn't seem to work. Just, couldn't you tilt the control stick to the right a bit and see if you can land a bit further?
Anyway, great trick. I've known that there was a small hole in that wall, you can even stand on it actually, and I've used it in my rail vid (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMZlxHjp8Vs) (damn, I just don't get the ftp thing <_<)
Amazing that you managed to bounce through that hole, really amazing.
And as you said right, there's no way in getting out on the right side of the tower, I've been trying as well.

Quote
And if we didn't keep him away from it, he'd show us how to fall into the Green Hill 1 signpost in three seconds.
Oh, this definitely sounds interesting =D

And without going too much into the shortcut discussion, I just want to say that I wouldn't mind if such a shortcut was created (on FR). It could still be in the Freestyle, or banned.
And even if it were allowed, the part that's not skipped by it is still open and comes down to skill.

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Offline SadisticMystic

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #222 on: December 01, 2008, 03:06:02 pm »
Bear in mind that heading too far right, too early, meets another one of those side kill planes, and time spent moving right is time not spent moving up. There's little chance of being able to make the walkway with two 10s and a spring, never mind anything higher.

"Bouncing through the hole" doesn't really take any sort of precision; it's more like a big void from all the way up there. You do at least have to be sure to strafe around the side of the tower; scraping the wall itself is a big letdown there.

As far as applying the trick to other stages, it seems Final Rush is just looser in that regard. None of the other stages let you sustain anything like that, except maybe Crazy Gadget which I haven't tried for the simple reason that its layout just doesn't have anything to use it on.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2008, 10:10:45 pm by SadisticMystic »

Offline Aitamen

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #223 on: December 01, 2008, 10:00:53 pm »
*Agrees with RR*

Also, may I direct you to the topic we kinda hijacked from mike that notes that we are divided...  some are here to prove skill, others are here to get low times... 

The biggest (or at least publicly noted) case of this was when superjump was banned in H2, THE TOP 10 BEST PLAYERS walked out.  Why?  Because even though they could beat everyone without it (and did, many times, to prove this point), they had no interest in playing a game in a culture that would put limitations.  Why ban something that's possible?

In H2, it's even worse because M$ could've just released a patch, but the same rule applies here.
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Offline Brian

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #224 on: December 04, 2008, 05:26:08 pm »
Did you saw the blazest video? It's amazing!!! Hahahaha he really could tie my video xD. Great dude! Now seriously your ending was close to perfection, it only wasn't perfect 'cause you flied a little from the floor before charging your spindash, but I couldn't do better today, great \m/!!!

I get my camera!!! The video of gravity control is done, it was made together with my video showing my strategies for Green Forest mission 2. The upload will be done soon!

On a side note: I've made something really Paragodly!!! Today, trying to study the blazest ending, I was able to hit the set of springs in Green Forest with 2 awesome times! The first was 41:34, which was 0:21 sec faster than my personal(and maybe world's) best time, this was taped but not from the beggining of the stage 'cause my camera was with very low battery, and at this rate I could tape only a few seconds before it shut down, so I could finish the mission but due to a mistake on the ending I was able to do only 51:62 :(, but that's not finished, after that, I was playing the stage to beat the record again, and I got to the springs in 41:00 sec exatly!!! Wow it was really amazing, and I taped it too!!! I could see the record, but I made a big mistake which costed to me the record, again :(, the game don't wants me to do this xD. That's the story of the day when I got the cam. See ya'll next episode ;).

Edit: Corrected some numbers :P
« Last Edit: December 04, 2008, 05:49:43 pm by Brian_pso »
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Offline Paused

Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #225 on: December 04, 2008, 06:48:09 pm »
so I guess I am the only one who is going to be upset if SM screws over final rush?

If it means anything, I feel the same way, and as a result, amongst other things, your video for Final Rush is probably my favorite Individual Level video from any site I am aware of.

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #226 on: December 05, 2008, 07:36:55 pm »
Oh well, improved by 0:00:17
Only 0:00:85 to go!

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Offline Jawzunx

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #227 on: December 06, 2008, 07:28:11 am »
Hey guys, I got my old TV repaired and improved my Final Rush mission 1 time :D
Now it's 2:17.39 -_- Yeah, it still sucks
How do you do the stage so fast?

My checkpoints were:
 -0:4X:XX
 -1:08:XX
 -1:27:8X
still can't believe what I did in 2007

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #228 on: December 06, 2008, 01:58:46 pm »
Glad to hear that! And a 2:17 isn't bad at all, 3rd place.
Anyway, here are my best checkpoints so far:

0:44.98
-I don't use the middle one anymore, but it would be around... 1:05:00
1:20:81 (Paragod's is 1:20.1)


Quote
How do you do the stage so fast?
I suggest you watching Paragod's 2:13 vid to copy him perfectly and get the same time(or a bit better) than him. After you've done that, watch my 2:09 vid and improve on the sections I did different than him.
After that, it's just practice on your own. However, Paragod did say once that he has his 2:08 recorded, maybe if he would upload it...

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Offline Brian

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #229 on: December 07, 2008, 02:49:12 pm »
"Brian's weekend News"

"Brian improved some of his times this morning, here's the some:"

Radical Highway:
Mission 1: 1:47:69 3rd place
Mission 2: 39:35 10th place
Mission 3: 1:02:69 6th place

Sky Rail:
Mission 1: 46:10 10th place

Metal Harbor:
Mission 2: 31:25 5th place

Final Chase:
Mission 1: 2:47:35 10th place

Hot News!!!

"Sources confirmed that our great friend "Jawzun" beated Green Forest Mission 3 record!!! The time is still unknown."

"This was the "Brian's weekend Journal" live from Rio de Janeiro."

See ya'll next week ^_~
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Offline Brian

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #230 on: December 07, 2008, 04:59:12 pm »
Gravity Control video is up. It's on the video section, I'm showing my strat of mission 2 of green forest along side with the video.
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Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #231 on: December 09, 2008, 03:15:05 pm »
Hmm, holidays starting in 1.5 weeks, and you know what that means.
I decided to put at least 5 hours a day of effort into Final Rush, and that every day of my precious holidays until I beat you.
Yes, and until then, it's mostly SU360's time!

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Offline Aitamen

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #232 on: December 12, 2008, 04:14:37 pm »
Everytime I hear "And you know what that means!!", I think "It's time to feed my MAG!!"

I am a bad, bad person

ALSO: The phrase "That gives me wood" reminds me of the same ?_?
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Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #233 on: December 12, 2008, 07:14:23 pm »
WTF? <_<

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Offline Selphos

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #234 on: December 12, 2008, 07:28:55 pm »
Aita, mind giving us a point of reference for these obscure quotes? >_>
The moon is so red. Looks like it's going to be a fun night.

Offline Aitamen

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #235 on: December 13, 2008, 11:47:50 am »
If you don't know what a MAG is, and/or couldn't guess the context of which "MAG" I was speaking of, I really have to wonder if you're a SEGA fan at all...
Year 33 — The Malkavians claim that their greatest practical joke happened during this year, when they perform a bit of graverobbing  in Jerusalem.
-- Vampire: The Masquerade

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #236 on: December 13, 2008, 01:21:55 pm »
Well, I know there's a MAG magazine.. <_<

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Offline Aitamen

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #237 on: December 13, 2008, 02:21:22 pm »
PSO!

YOU FOOLS!
Year 33 — The Malkavians claim that their greatest practical joke happened during this year, when they perform a bit of graverobbing  in Jerusalem.
-- Vampire: The Masquerade

Offline finalrush7_

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #238 on: December 13, 2008, 02:33:52 pm »
Never played PSO <_<

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Offline Brian

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Re: How much time do you lose when you respawn from a checkpoint in SA2:B?
« Reply #239 on: December 13, 2008, 04:46:23 pm »
Hahahaha, MAG magazine was GREAT!!! Why don't you play it, it's an amazing game. ^_^
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