61

Competition Central / Re: results of late night s3 race - knuckles

« on: January 17, 2011, 08:32:46 am »

Shit man and after that shit I race FF in some shitty ass S2K. I mother fucking game overed in sky chase I'm so shit. SHIT!

Next time I'll record this shit so ya'll can see how shit it is.

Edit: SHIT MAN! Did some s3 with FF and she died so I gave up with wheel glitch shit didnt give a shit. FUCK SHIT

62

Competition Central / Re: NTSC and PAL times should be seperate when there is a speed difference

« on: January 13, 2011, 08:19:08 am »

Also, since you're out of touch with the community, I'll let you know we ARE going to add SCD time zones, to be played from the debug stage-select menu. (PP1 past/future is hilariously short, bwaha)

We are? This is news to me. Good news though >_>

Also it's my opinion that NTSC/PAL splitting is kinda dumb, especially outside of things like CD special stages, and even then you could compare it to Dreamcast Gamecube stuff. Except you can use emulator so stop whining <_<

63

Competition Central / Re: Tier list for Sonic game competition

« on: December 25, 2010, 02:47:46 pm »

Ording games by the amount of players in them to attempt to sort them into competition tiers doesn't work. Get a real job :(

64

Wikkity! / Re: What are YOU planning on getting for Christmas?

« on: December 23, 2010, 07:28:26 am »

Shadow the Hedgehog plushies?

In other news, a monitor that I can use in my room istead of this lame TV in the lounge room.

65

Hiya Folks / Re: Forum Introduction Zone, Act 6

« on: December 06, 2010, 03:36:30 am »

Have we now got representation for all the states?

All the important ones. Wait hang on, Andy is from SA not WA.

Nevermind.

66

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: November 06, 2010, 05:19:02 pm »

E.G.G. Station is definately 6 mintues I tested that one myself. Thanks for the list FKE, that'll really help.

Also Splash Hill 3 184600 Super Sonic.

67

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: November 06, 2010, 01:34:16 am »

Well I've done the special stages kinda decently. Recorded everything except SS5 rings so far.

SS1: 1'17"13 | 141 | 19500
SS2: 1'13"64 | 111 | 16800
SS3: 0'51"62 | 138 | 17300
SS4: 1'44"13 | 189 | 24400
SS5: 1'03"91 | 191 | 22100
SS6: 1'22"42 | 201 | 23800
SS7: 1'42"91 | 120 | 20800

All the rings are maxed, all the scores are TSC records and all the times are first or second on the wii boards. SS3 isn't a TSC record though, how PsyKnux got 58 is beyond me...

Still can't upload anything sadly though. :(

68

Competition Central / Re: The Official Top Tens Topic

« on: November 04, 2010, 06:26:28 pm »

http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_adventure_2_b/bosses/finalhazard/last

Best record

http://league.soniccenter.org/rankings/spring_2009_league/round_2/sonic_adventure_2_battle_-_finalhazard_-_last

Except not :(

69

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: November 04, 2010, 06:45:50 am »

Well I haven't got any more videos cause my internet is limited and sucky and whatever. But I'll list what I've done:

SH1 Time - Super Sonic: 32"00. Complete rubbish, like seriously.
SH1 Score - Super Sonic: 126300. This was pretty solid, and not the slightest bit easy.
SH3 Time - Super Sonic: 39"65. Will re-do and make a video later, I came to a dead stop at one point >_>
SH3 Score - Super Sonic: 184600. This was brilliant. Till I accidently found you could merge two of the combos together to get a score that'll end up being over 200K. Fuuuck :\
CS2 Time - Super Sonic: 1'18"55. Thought it was rather average tbh.

Nothing else of note really, except that I beat FF's MG3 score with SS also, I got 104500. But it wasn't really that good :(

70

Competition Central / Re: A compendium of game saves

« on: November 02, 2010, 01:51:54 am »

IC2T slope glitch for rings, got the 3 ring boxes on sonic's path and a lightning shield for convience.

Edit: and here's sonic.

Edit: aaaand Knuckles.
Redid these to get rid of the barrier.

Just for sparkle...

For SDM: IC2K Slope glitch being able to spindash at the start. No shield, sorry man :(

For Aita: IC2T Slope glitch for TA, S3 alone

71

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 31, 2010, 02:01:20 am »

A couple of hours trying SH2 and I found good route for Super Sonic, another few hours later and I ended up with 32"10, which I thought was rather impressive.

Less than ten minutes later I ended up with 31"52. How did I do so much better so quickly? Behold the power of pause abuse!

It destroies S4 to a pulp, seriously. It's very, very saddening :(

72

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 30, 2010, 04:52:38 am »

1'24"32 Lost Labyrinth 3. Nice run, still improveable however.

Also I still am not sure how Super Sonic charts are working. Will it be like S2/S3K where it is just the option, or will times performed with sonic be restricted to just the sonic charts, and then super sonic restricted to super sonic charts?

73

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 27, 2010, 09:33:41 pm »

Still no CS1 score charts. I am saddened :(

Also, will super sonic charts be forced super sonic or just the option to use super sonic, because I'm sure a few charts would be better off with just sonic (Actually I'm not sure as I haven't tested, but it'd come up somewhere)

Also 24"33 Casino Street Boss. Be warned this one is even worse quality.

74

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 23, 2010, 07:42:53 pm »

Mad Gear Boss: 41"65 This one actually meets my standards...

75

Competition Central / Re: Angel Island Zone Act 2 Ring Attack (Knuckles)

« on: October 23, 2010, 07:20:13 pm »

http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=2586.msg41928#msg41928

Thar you go. And thank AD and DsS for finding the tricks here (the spikes glide is the hard part.)

76

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 23, 2010, 04:15:47 pm »

E.G.G. Station 3'19"62

My internet finally kept it together to upload another vid. Ya'll should watch this one, the strategy ain't what you think.

77

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 23, 2010, 06:35:19 am »

Just to note, i ment site-competitive. It becomes a redundant chart, stuff like MG1 in Sonic 3, and Shamar Day 1 in SUWii actually require effort to pick up rings, rather than just having a slot machine decide how long till you get all the rings. The rings aren't gonna be allowed, i'd say save your effort and try to get CS1 Scores up.

You make it seem like the whole level is just a slot machine, and nothing else. It still takes effort to get there, it still takes effort to keep on going back into the machine. Not as much as Marble Garden 1, sure, but 8 Hidden Palace Knuckles doesn't take as much effort as 1:34 Doomsday either. So are we gonna scrap that chart too? Of course not, it is still a stat which requires skill to complete.

Pointless it not necassarily pathetic, as it addresses and makes sure we don't make the same mistake we made in Sonic 06/SRA in listing every single fucking chart possible. Mind the swearing, i just hate SRA Extra >_> If the chart is necassary so that we have an all-round competitive game, then we should put it in; If the chart is pointless and would possibly stop people submitting to that game (i'll use SRA Extra for an example here), then we should not put it in.

This is actually a good point. I can see how the overload of charts can force competition out of such games. However this is an entirely different case, the word pointless might be related between them, but it is in a very different context. Actually the chart isn't even pointless anyway! Ahhhhh I am out of words I'm afraid, I don't know how to get my point across anymore. Someone else voice their opinion on the matter please because I get the feeling Cruizer and I are gonna keep going around in circles if we go on any longer <_<

78

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 23, 2010, 05:37:20 am »

So you're trying to tell me a level that is luck dependant is fine. A level that has major parts of the level being non competitive is fine. And a level that requires next to no research is fine. But a combination of these isn't? What....the fuck.

But yeah being uninteresting, effortless and requiring no research are all points of opinion. And not tracking charts because some of us think it is "too easy/boring/pointless" is rather pathetic.

Mind you, the score attack becomes one which involves whoever can find the correct slot machine to use and how fast/patient/lucky they are. So in turn, the slot machine does have an effect on the chart in question, in that the best scores will have a high 900 value for the rings. So the slot machine and rings will become a dependency in the score attack. Which leads me back to my main point.

The slot machine is a scalper, and scalping is allowed. Within a time limit, and so long as it doesn't reach infinite it still has competitive value. Both of these criteria are met. This isn't just thoery either, doing runs in practise it has quite a large competitive value, I've mentioned before it tests skill to get to the machine quickly, patience to run through the slot machine several times for a good score, and bravery to keep entering till time is almost up.

Also I'm starting to get the feeling it'd be easier to back myself up if I was in favour of allowing ring charts too. So I might as well put that on the table then too, though I might back down from that quite quickly. Under a time limit, again, rings don't go to -infinite- they just get maxed at 999. We track plenty of other stats that would be easier than getting 999, so why not this too?

79

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 23, 2010, 02:41:59 am »

And even so it has a banned chart within it's own competition, if all the good scores are getting 999 rings...wouldn't that cancel itself out anyway? And so the competition relies on the patience and bravery to get the run correct. It is a competitive chart that does not go to an infinite, it should be added...

I don't think it cancels out, or else i wouldn't've brought the point up. I want someone to explain why that we can use a method that is allowed in one chart, but not another. And do not bring up a precedent in another game, as that would just leave me confused, asking why that/those charts are allowed too.

Of course it cancels out. Everyone gets 999 rings (who is seriously competing), so the rings have no effect on the rankings of the chart at all. Regardless to the point, as I've said before, the maxxed out rings are not the only factor at hand here. By your logic you could say we should ban Wing Fortress time charts because the last 50 seconds (I actually have no idea how long) are exactly the same as Sky Chase or Bridge 2 and leave for no competition. Which is of course, stupid. The competition is still there for score, and isn't for rings.

Also I still haven't figured out my reasoning for rings not being allowed, but it has nothing to do with it being pointless or easy :\

80

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 22, 2010, 06:21:39 pm »

My view on this would be to allow the ring and score charts for CS2/3, simply due to the fact that there isn't a slot machine in the level. CS1 Rings are, obviously, out of the question. However, now to inject a valid reason, CS1 Scores should be disallowed, simply due to the fact that:

The scores are reliant on rings, so having a chart allowed even though it is reliant on a banned chart is fine?[/u]

wut

Someone explain to me why we should have a chart be allowed when it is reliant on something we disallow. That is a logical fallacy :/

This is actually a pretty good point. If we're disallowing CS1 rings then we should disallow CS1 scores, if we're allowing CS1 scores then we should allow CS1 rings.

That would be a good point if it were entirely true. Any decent run would get 999 rings, the score is dependant on other factors as I stated in my casino night case. The score consists of scalping from the slot machine, which we allow, the combos from enemies and the skill and guts required to get to and from the slot machine to finish the level - for reference my first two super sonic runs died on the final stretch, and then the rings. And even so it has a banned chart within it's own competition, if all the good scores are getting 999 rings...wouldn't that cancel itself out anyway? And so the competition relies on the patience and bravery to get the run correct. It is a competitive chart that does not go to an infinite, it should be added...

Also I have been thinking about how to put into words why the rings chart is banned but I just can't do it properly. For the record though, I wouldn't be opposed to there being a ring chart, but at the same time I'm not gonna argue its case. In my mind there is some indescribable logic that has it make sense. Someone else put it into words for me please? <_<

81

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 22, 2010, 12:54:21 pm »

Ok so it turns out I was completely mislead about this slot machine. I'll give a brief description for those who like me, had no idea:

3 Rings, pays 10 rings - and 10000 points.
3 Bars, pays 20 rings - and 20000 points.
3 Sonics, pays 30 rings, and 30000 points.
3 Jackpots, pays 150 rings, and 50000 points.
1/2 Bars, pays 2/4 rings, and 2000/4000 points.

So score charts really are just spamming that for 9 minutes. I've no idea how to manipulate this, other than super sonic gets 3 jackpots every time. This is a stupid slot machine, but nonetheless I still find no logical argument against tracking it. Being luck based means nothing, it's been stated several times that numerous charts involve luck, it not being an interesting strategy is about the worst excuse I've ever heard, competition is still viable so this chart should definately go up to. For reference, a test run with sonic netted me 787670 points (super sonic got 1651710 <_<)

So this, as Zeupar said is another scapler in essence. So unless we want to review the whole discussion about whether scapling is ok or not, we pretty much gotta add this chart for consistency. I understand what Zeupar says for no wanting to delete previous charts because people have worked on them, but it's just sloppy and illogical to not have the same standards for what we consider to be competition worthy throughout the site.

My two cents is that scalping is fine anyhow. Having another chart to compete on is not really a bad thing anyway, if you hate scalping that much, then just don't do it yourself.

82

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 22, 2010, 09:39:45 am »

Luck shouldn't be a factor here. There are TONS of places where your time is largely determined by luck (almost all of SA(DX) rings and... probably half the charts on the site really).

The last part of your statement isn't true.

That all depends on what you call luck, Zeupar. You could argue all of Heroes times can be determined through luck just so you don't fall through the wall. Another exmaple, I was just speedrunning Egg Station, I could not force the final boss to use a certain move, but I just kept playing the level until he did, was that luck too? Or was that just patience? It is my opinion that luck in speed running is all just patience, which is a part of speed running and thus is not grounds for banning a chart at all...

So the way it seems, there is no arguement at all against CS2 and CS3 Score charts. CS1 rings are definately out. CS1 score is all that's left. I've already presented my case, dunno how everyone else feels though.

83

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 22, 2010, 08:28:09 am »

Kinda the point there, Miles was taking the piss out of Zeupar's post when he said we shouldn't track level because the strategy for obtaining the stats is uninteresting.

84

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 22, 2010, 01:53:11 am »

Scores in CN are completely luck-based (you can't get the full time bonus, so you'd have to get a Perfect bonus, as well as all enemies (there are very few, and I can only think of two that are able to be combo'd together), and bumpers, which leads to a score based almost entirely on getting fast jackpots for variation).  Unless I'm mistaken, un-maxable rings are the only time TSC allows luck-based records (Ring monitors in various games, I believe, are the only exception to the rule.  This is outside of my realm of knowledge, and before my time, however.)

Completely luck based? I can't begin to tell you how wrong you are. For those who are aiming for top score, the run would go as follows:
1) Get all the rings as fast as possible. Have you had a look at a Casino Night map? That is no easy task. A fair load of skill here
2) Go the jackpots. Yeah sure, this is luck, but we plenty of charts with luck in them, so I don't see how luck being included is an issue, I mean why not remove Casino Park Chaotix times then?
3) Go into those 100-point-paying-out-slot-thingos till time up. Spamming, just like Hill top

I truly and honestly don't see why this chart isn't allowed. And as such, I see no reason against putting in CS1 Score charts either.

Also for the record, I wasn't arguing against ring charts being banned for CN and CS1, my viewpoint there is the same as yours Aita.

85

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 21, 2010, 05:42:44 pm »

Scores:
As above, minus all of Casino Street

I don't think I understand this at all. CS1 falls under the same category as Casino Night which as I mentioned before, I don't understand why it doesn't have a score chart. Scores are not maxed just because of a slot machine paying out rings; time bonus, combos, the amount of bumpers you can get in your time, (and in casino night's case, the 50K perfect bonus) all also contribute to your score. It's like saying that because the time bonus can be maxed on a level we shouldn't include score. The whole thing baffles me to be honest.

But CS2 and CS3, unless I'm mistaken, are in the same bracket as Hill Top! Sonic 4 has a time over people! And well an obtainable 80K time bonus on every level, so spamming the bumpers would only go for a few seconds for good scores. Correct me if I'm wrong but this seems highly inconsistent.

86

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 20, 2010, 07:13:25 am »

On CS1 there is a slot machine. So would this mean that the same would be done with how CN was dealt with on S2. As in just have a times chart? Other things popped up about CS1 that other poeple have pointed out. Maybe a score chart for it since you can get more score with an 80k bonus. But then another pointed out was what if someone could get 999 rings from the slot machine and spam the bumpers for 10 points. No idea if they are infinite but then we do have a time over on this game which would mean spamming is allowed >_>

Makes sense to have a score chart the way things have been going. Which gets me thinking, why the bloody hell doesn't Casino Night have a score chart? Sure rings go to 999 with a slot machine, but that doesnt max score at all, and under a time limit those score-paying-out-machine-thingos should still be legit. :/ :\

Haven't checked in CS2 if there are any slot machines yet. However, there are loads of random cards. So maybe score and rings should be fine there, since we do RA games with random capsules. Something to look into.

How many people that compete with ? boxes in other games bitch about it? Alot, so i vote we rule this one out for safety of peace.

You have got to be kidding me. CS2 rings would be the most troll chart ever, as if we wouldn't include it. The rage trying to compete on that level would be utterly hilarious.

87

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 20, 2010, 03:01:01 am »

Hey guess what guys. I gotta my video shit working, but be warned, the video quality sucks. I'm gonna record my other 5 records too, so expect them soon. With 8 hits before the arena I present Lost Labyrinth Boss in 35"96

88

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 18, 2010, 05:46:28 pm »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSjfEQ7ehH8 - Lost Labyrinth 1 - 1:25:00, this could have been so much better... still I don't see how 1:19 is possible >_>

You...can...jump over the first boulder? GOD DAMMIT! Now I know how to beat that Japanese kid, and I'll have to improve my sonic time while I'm at it. Thanks mate. Also um, yeah, general optimisation? Try to homing attack alot more instead of just plain jumping. I'll make a vid tonight/tomorrow if I can get the record. Thankyou francisco!

89

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 18, 2010, 12:26:05 pm »

Hopefully I still have my 3:51.27 speed run for that stage, although that can also be heavily improved to at least sub 3:40 i think

If you look up closely you'll see I have 3'28"93. The run was great, time only can be improved through optimisation to get it down, maybe 2 more seconds.
Also I would get 89300 myself if I knew how to manipulate the final boss the also go up instead of jumping at you, do you know a way to do that at all? <_< Also yeah, I don't know who you are, hi :o

90

Competition Central / Re: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 competition

« on: October 18, 2010, 09:55:06 am »

Boss Saing done. First four are perfect.
Splash Hill Boss: 82200, one attempt.
Casino Street Boss: 82200, also one attempt.
Lost Labyrinth Boss: 85900, a bit tougher but still easy.
Mad Gear Boss: 83400, two shots, easier than i thoguht it would be.

Now this last one is a complete and utter bitch.
Egg Station: 89100. Not perfect at all. You get 100 points every time you hit the arm. I got 5 in this run, all 36 rings and finished at 5'41 (the 80K time bonus cut off is at 6 minutes, and the LL boss took 2 phases, so I'm pretty sure this gets another 200...)