ITT egg ruins another topic, makes a fool of himself yet again and gets banned


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Offline eggFL

That's right, the game is called

SONIC CHRONICLES
The Dark Brotherhood



full version of pic - http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5471/sonicrpgnpdo9.jpg


    * In game graphics have a water color look, all hand drawn. Full 3D battles, 2D backgrounds for non-battles.
    * 4 party members at a time
    * Each character can do certain things ex: Tails can float over things (standard stuff)
    * 11 party members total - 7 known are Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Rouge, Shadow, Big the Cat
    * Control done fully with stylus - think Hourglass
    * Able to split party into teams at certain moments. Navigational puzzles confirmed. (use Tails to reach a high place, smash a rock with Amy's mallot, etc)
    * Rings are used as currency
    * No random battles, enemies are seen in advance. (however battles still take place in a different zone)
    * Turn based battles. Commands are chosen for everyone in your party before they actually follow through, supposedly done to make the battles "feel" fast-paced and hectic.
    * Elite Beat Agents type special attacks
    * "Fatigue Points" instead of MP
    * Choose which attributes to increase when you level up. (you can make Big the Cat fast, make Rouge the Bat stronger, etc)
    * Purchase and level special attacks
    * Bits of story - Sonic's on vacation from defeating Eggman 2 years ago. Gets a call from Tails that Knuckles has been kidnapped by a group called the Marauders, and that 6 chaos emeralds are missing. Eggman not the main villain. But Bioware wants to make him a creditable bad guy again. Something about a "twist" between Eggman and Sonic that goes back to the earlier games.
    * 2 acts - first takes place in standard Sonic areas. 2nd takes place in a darker world which parallels the normal world
    * Remixed clasic tunes, as well as classic stages like Green Hill, Mystic Ruins, and Emerald Town (???)
    * "fully animated cut scenes"
    * You can choose what to make Sonic say, usually being able to choose from the first thing Sonic would normally say, or choose to ask for more information, or bring up an attitude for humorous results.
    * Development staff claims to be surprised at wealth of info and backstory in the Sonic universe and are eager to bring that out in this game.
    * They intend to make a deep compelling story and to make the player feel an emotional bond with the characters.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 11:56:39 pm by Rolken »

Offline Thorn

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2008, 11:36:06 pm »
I was just looking at that elsewhere before you posted it.

We can all agree on one thing up front: the symbol on that guy's forehead implies some lame group backstory that we won't care for, but will discover as the game progresses anyway.

At least this rules out the idea of "create-a-furry"... Sonic sites everywhere dodged a bullet with that one.
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Offline Spinballwizard

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2008, 11:44:32 pm »
Thank God.

Everything looks innocent enough that I'd pick up the game whenever it comes out.
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Offline CosmicFalcon

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2008, 12:16:04 am »
That looks like a Sonic the Comic story arc cover art :(

Which is a plus if anything... traditionally Sonic games don't have anywhere near a thick enough story for an RPG, but Sonic the Comic's stories were... thick. To say the least.
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Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2008, 12:40:05 am »










« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 06:39:05 pm by eggFL »

Offline P.P.A.

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2008, 05:33:55 am »
:O

Those hand-drawn landscapes look really nice. The stupid name doesn't.
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Offline ChaoRC

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2008, 04:31:24 pm »
K2J over at the Sonic Stadium ripped the entire Nintendo Power magazine.

Found it on their News Site.

Offline douglas

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2008, 04:55:34 pm »
That loop is intriguing :)  Also I like the visual style, like classic Bioware but bright and Sonicy.  Despite the awful name I am predicting WIN.
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Offline Pokemonmaster888

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2008, 05:29:38 pm »
This game looks like it will be very unique, by Sonic The Hedgehog game-usual standards. It will be interesting to play, I hope. It definitely is looking great so far, judging by the screenshots. I hope it turns out to be a great game. I will buy it when it comes out.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 10:23:21 pm by Pokemonmaster888 »


     

Offline Rick_242

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2008, 05:33:08 pm »
* 11 party members total - 8 known are Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Amy, Rouge, Shadow, Big the Cat

wut
<Sondow> also what
<Sondow> since when was S&K an expansion pack to s3
<Sondow> wiki LIES

Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2008, 05:34:24 pm »
As I said, a source called it one of the best Sonic games since Sonic Adventure! :o
But srsly, this game looks amazing and it's times like these I REALLY wish I had a DS. If only they could make something THIS stellar on the Wii - here's looking forward to the "rumored true Sonic game".
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Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2008, 06:41:11 pm »
after reading the article I feel a little better about the game

I guess the only truly bad thing about it is the fact that it's a JRPG

anyway let me know if this thread has too many pics




« Last Edit: January 12, 2008, 07:13:56 pm by eggFL »

Offline magnum12

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2008, 07:07:02 pm »
I also read that the game will also have Chrono Trigger style team attacks. The graphics (non combat) somewhat remind me of a Tales game. Combat reminds me of Mario and Luigi (turn based but quick and strategic with timing based attack enhancements).

I would have prefered a combat system like the one seen in Tales of the Abyss. Now that's a REALLY fast paced battle system (more like a fighting game) that when combined with good AI and multiplayer (I think ToA had it but I know ToS did) is just a blast to play (I wanted to get into every fight with that system).
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline Ben

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2008, 07:26:21 pm »
Nice, it looks very promising so far. Apart from the fact it uses characters from recent games, hopefully it will take more inspiration from the Megadrive originals.

Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2008, 07:53:52 pm »
I also read that the game will also have Chrono Trigger style team attacks. The graphics (non combat) somewhat remind me of a Tales game. Combat reminds me of Mario and Luigi (turn based but quick and strategic with timing based attack enhancements).

Yea although I just took that footnote off before you posted.. because.. I don't see why team attacks mean anything.. I already covered that the game has special attacks using the stylus. And I don't see what Chrono Trigger has anything to do with it.

Quote
I would have prefered a combat system like the one seen in Tales of the Abyss. Now that's a REALLY fast paced battle system (more like a fighting game) that when combined with good AI and multiplayer (I think ToA had it but I know ToS did) is just a blast to play (I wanted to get into every fight with that system).

mmm that might have been better than what we got. I love the idea of developing Sonic as more of a fighter. He can't just spindash all the time his whole life.

As I said, a source called it one of the best Sonic games since Sonic Adventure! :o

Indeed, they're clearly hypocritical Sonic haters who are brilliantly quick to glamorize every new Sonic spinoff to come out because they instantly convince themselves that it somehow returns to The Good Ol' Days in some vague or irrelevant way.

I still remember how Secret Rings was favored over Sonic06 before either game even came out. Absolute insanity.

This is why Sonic games are all spinoffs now.

But everyone said Secret Rings would be good because it's focuses about SPEED Sonic is all about SPEED, now we get Sonic Chronicles and it focuses on.. oh hell who knows what.

This game is made by a different company and the gameplay has nothing to do with Sonic, but yes, it's the best Sonic game ever based on a handful of screenshots.

Thank God.

Everything looks innocent enough that I'd pick up the game whenever it comes out.

yea, at least it's innocent. great

Anyway, I do appreciate that they are fans of Big the Cat and they want to improve his character.

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2008, 09:08:54 pm »
It's definitely shaping up to be a good game, from what I can see :o

There's no doubt in my mind now that I'll be getting this when it comes out.
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Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2008, 09:19:16 pm »
I guess it's ok.

I look forward to seeing some gameplay clips.

Offline magnum12

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2008, 10:38:29 pm »
Chrono Trigger Team Attack: A unique special attack that requires multiple party members (2-4) to perform. Both characters use their turn to use this. Sometimes requires characters to have a specific prerequiste attack learned to unlock. Named after the game that made team special techniques famous. Team attacks are often very devestating tactical maneuvers that require strategy to use to their full potential.
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2008, 10:54:50 pm »
Team attacks are often very devastating tactical maneuvers that require strategy to use to their full potential.

is that so...

Offline magnum12

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2008, 11:30:48 pm »
Yes. In game theory, there's the payoff (big damage) vs the risks, i.e. more expensive MP cost (watch out for enemies that damage MP, having to have the target(s) posistioned correctly to get the most out of the attack (applies to real time), giving up multiple attacks (very risky when one of the required members is a healer or other support character), issues with maintanence (have to keep all required members alive if you plan to use it in your next turn).
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline KnucklesSonic8

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2008, 08:18:33 pm »
eggFL, ftr, they didn't judge it based on screenshots. Hint hint...
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Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2008, 08:56:04 pm »
they might have, but it doesn't matter, they are crazy. It's not even a Sonic game and they are destroying Sonic's identity

Offline EngiNerd

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2008, 09:42:54 pm »
* 11 party members total - 8 known are Sonic, Tails, Amy, Knuckles, Amy, Rouge, Shadow, Big the Cat

wut
Yeah, Amy twice?  (I didn't see the bold, I doubt anyone else did either.)
So we know 7.  Why Amy before Knuckles, I dunno, unless someone did their homework.  Other members?  Cream?  Omega?  Silver?  Blaze?  Hmm, that totals 11.... (and we KNOW Silver's in.)
And I never would have guessed the new character was female....
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Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2008, 09:59:51 pm »
how did you manage to quote my post from before I last edited it. (that being January 12, 2008, 06:37:59 PM)

I originally just copied and posted someone's bullet points from another forum which is why there was that error.

Since I read the article for myself, I edited the bullet list, and fixed that part.

anyway, what makes you so sure Silver is in it? He doesn't automatically have to be in it... but then again they do have Rouge, Shadow, and Big. (although they claim to actually like Big)

Hey do you suppose that Sega forced them to put certain characters in from the very start? (I also wonder if Sega forced Bioware to make it a JRPG) Makes sense to me. There was no way they would let them make a Sonic-only game. But then again, a Sonic-only RPG wouldn't allow for much customization in the first place.. so I dunno. Just a thought.

I certainly would have preferred a non-party based action RPG. Like Sonic 3D Blast but with stylus controls, no jumping, and awesome real-time in-game stylus-based combat. (you know, whisk the stylus for a homing attack, then do a circular motion to combo into a roundhouse kick, etc etc, awesome) And you can move Sonic around and run around with the stylus, it would be like SegaSonic Arcade, but with a stylus instead of a trackball. A true Sonic game but also an action RPG. Too bad we got this instead.

Offline General Throatstomper

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2008, 12:14:58 am »
I'm liking the way the game looks...but if Phantom Hourglass was any indication, the touchscreen controls will feel tacked on. A dpad is more than functional for movement and attack options, in fact preferable so you don't grind your screen to death...there's also the annoyance of your hand covering part of the screen. Let's not even cover the imprecision involved.

The art is gorgeous, if not a touch strange for a Sonic game...which I'd be willing to overlook because the genre is obviously incomparable. I'm not seeing any reason to buy the game yet though, it just looks like a generic, albeit artistically done, RPG.

Supposedly there's a twist in the game that has implications in the original Genesis games. That will be interesting. I expect that info to leak a day afterwards, along with pictures of the cutscene in question, just like Sonic getting a spear to the throat in 06.

MOVING ON.

I love the idea of developing Sonic as more of a fighter. He can't just spindash all the time his whole life.

Mentally index this part, store it for future use.

Quote from: Egg
But everyone said Secret Rings would be good because it's focuses about SPEED Sonic is all about SPEED, now we get Sonic Chronicles and it focuses on.. oh hell who knows what.

"Developing Sonic as a fighter". Giving him depth. From the looks of it a respectable CASH COW, an oddity. That's what the game's trying to do.

Quote from: Egg
The part where Egg bashes people for calling 06 crap and Secret Rings good

People were actually optimistic involving 06 until the demo was released on live. They'd heard about problems at e3, but everyone thought they would be rectified...after all it was a very early build. However the demo, so close to the game's release, killed the hope many had for 06. Whereas Secret Rings, unplayed at the time, still looked promising. It wasn't praised for being "classic Sonic", it was praised for looking like a genuinely fun arcade-style Sonic game in a different style with little opportunity for the glitches that plagued previous 3D entries in the series.

Quote from: Egg
The part where Egg says only spinoff games can do well anymore, and people only like this game from what they've seen because it's not made by Sega.

Well sure, people are jaded from Sonic now, and they're naturally inclined to dislike the games...but that's only because Sega never seems to go that extra mile and they've mismanaged major games. Say what you will about 06 being underrated, unfairly maligned, but it's clear that there could have been much more in the game. People are excited about this game because it's from an acclaimed studio with a track record of consistant excellency, one that does not disappoint fans, not because it's not a mainstream Sonic game. Bioware will not rush themselves unduly to finish a game. Get it right Egg!

If Sega were to show that they're willing to commit time to games instead of churning them out then yeah, the major games would be better received. As Rolken once put it succintly, and I can think of no better way of wording this, "good games don't come out in time for the holiday season". You might not think so, but Secret Rings took a fair beating in reviews for being so obviously rushed...it's not some bizarre prejudice against the 360 or PS3 on the part of fans, or for whatever reason you think people don't like 06 (hatred of 3D games? I'm not really sure why you think people don't like 06) neither game was really that great. And as I just said...Bioware will not rush themselves unduly to finish a game. Get it right Egg!

Just a few things for you to consider.


I HOPE YOU DO

Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2008, 12:48:26 am »
Yea so it's hypocritical to hype Secret Rings and insist Sonic is about speed and even that story isn't important, and then jadedly embrace this game with open arms saying oh its not made by incompetent Sega, it's the best Sonic game. (and then probably reject the game the second it comes out like with Secret Rings) To me that hints bias. Or is merely the words of a gamer who is indifferent to Sonic and platforming and looking at it from a more objective standpoint. However as a JRPG it has nothing to do with Sonic gameplay-wise, as such, in my opinion it's kind of wrong to call it the best Sonic game. But eh.. whatever. We'll see.

And I meant let's see Sonic developed as a fighter PHYSICALLY. Homing attack in SA1 led to homing attack stunts in Sonic Adventure 2, and then homing attack combos in Sonic06. That is brilliance. The "Sonic spin" is corny, it's obsolete. It doesn't even fit Sonic anymore. In a JRPG or Smash Bros or a game in which Sonic is guaranteed to need to do things besides spin dashing, why does he still spin dash so much. The loop screenshot I posted is just an eyesore imho. The right path of evolution is for Sonic to now attack like Shadow and for loops (in general) to be replaced with more inventive and more realistic running paths.

anyway I never played a Bioware game but I am familiar with them from all the splash hype surrounding Mass Effect. But regardless of their track record it's still confusing and disappointing that they would make the game a JRPG. It's gonna be a "good" game I'm sure, but it's still a JRPG, and it's still not a Sonic game. It seems hard to get excited about something like this.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2008, 12:53:44 am by eggFL »

Offline douglas

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2008, 04:11:08 am »
they might have, but it doesn't matter, they are crazy. It's not even a Sonic game and they are destroying Sonic's identity
BWAHAHAHAHAHA.  HA.  HA.  Sonic has an identity.  Classic.  I can't even begin to fathom your thought process there.  Sonic today is generic, traitless and marketeered.  Back in the day as the "hedgehog with attitude" this was pretty much the same, but you didn't have script and dialogue and godawful voice acting so it worked fine.

Yea so it's hypocritical to hype Secret Rings and insist Sonic is about speed and even that story isn't important,
Yes, it's totally hypocritical to say you want a Sonic platformer to play well above and beyond anything else.  I give you Super Mario Galaxy as example in chief.  RPGs are different and require compelling storyline and characterisations (this is actually my biggest worry, because if SEGA have creative input it could screw this royally).

Quote from: eggFL
and then jadedly embrace this game with open arms saying oh its not made by incompetent Sega, it's the best Sonic game.
Bioware has a back catalogue of awesome (Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Mass Effect - consistent Game of the Year winners/contenders).  Sonic Team has, of late, produced mediocrity at best and downright shoddiness at worst.

Quote from: eggFL
(and then probably reject the game the second it comes out like with Secret Rings)
Onos, we got excited about a game concept then it didn't live up to the high expectations.  We should have been rampant fanboys and denied any flaws existed.  Thanks, we'll know better next time.

Quote from: eggFL
To me that hints bias.
Towards a multiple GOTY standard publisher instead of what Sonic Team is now?  Colour me biased.

Quote from: eggFL
Or is merely the words of a gamer who is indifferent to Sonic and platforming and looking at it from a more objective standpoint.
What, pray, could be the reason for indifference to Sonic?  Perhaps shoddy games?  Given the warm reception most have given Galaxy, I'd say people still like platforming in general.

Quote from: eggFL
However as a JRPG
Bioware don't make JRPGs, they make real-time isometric view D&D based RPGs for the most part.

Quote from: eggFL
it has nothing to do with Sonic gameplay-wise, as such, in my opinion it's kind of wrong to call it the best Sonic game. But eh.. whatever. We'll see.
Seems fair.  How about we call it the best game with Sonic in it?  (yeah yeah Brawl, stfu)

Quote from: eggFL
And I meant let's see Sonic developed as a fighter PHYSICALLY. Homing attack in SA1 led to homing attack stunts in Sonic Adventure 2, and then homing attack combos in Sonic06. That is brilliance. The "Sonic spin" is corny, it's obsolete. It doesn't even fit Sonic anymore.
I think that's got a lot to do with the transition to 3D.  Oh, and "brilliance"?  lolwut?  Taking a concept and tweaking it ever so slightly so you can say "look it's a new feature honest" is easy.  I know, it's what most software developers do day-to-day.  Try some real innovation if you're going to use a word like brilliance.

Quote from: eggFL
In a JRPG or Smash Bros or a game in which Sonic is guaranteed to need to do things besides spin dashing, why does he still spin dash so much.
Evidently he isn't "guaranteed" not to.

Quote from: eggFL
The loop screenshot I posted is just an eyesore imho. The right path of evolution is for Sonic to now attack like Shadow and for loops (in general) to be replaced with more inventive and more realistic running paths.
I'll take fun over realism in a Sonic game, thanks.

Quote from: eggFL
anyway I never played a Bioware game but I am familiar with them from all the splash hype surrounding Mass Effect. But regardless of their track record it's still confusing and disappointing that they would make the game a JRPG. It's gonna be a "good" game I'm sure, but it's still a JRPG, and it's still not a Sonic game. It seems hard to get excited about something like this.
You're not familiar with them if all you've heard is Mass Effect hype.  As I said, multiple GOTY games stretching back over 10 years, and pretty much everything they've released has been excellent (yeah okay, KOTOR2 wasn't finished properly, one black mark and it was still very good).  They are the daddy of the RPG world (anyone who mentions Final Fantasy dies a painful death).

Why am I excited?  Probably my favourite studio working on a game with my favourite retro character in it.  Excuse me if I think that's a recipe for awesome.
This topic has now been officially won by me.  Never mind, you might do better next time!
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Offline P.P.A.

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2008, 05:15:23 am »
2 years after the last? So Sonic is now 18 in that game?
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Offline eggFL

Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2008, 06:38:58 am »
PPA - hmm.. sure, why not. Or maybe he was 14 in all past adventures. or maybe Sonic never ages... >__>

they might have, but it doesn't matter, they are crazy. It's not even a Sonic game and they are destroying Sonic's identity
BWAHAHAHAHAHA.  HA.  HA.  Sonic has an identity.  Classic.  I can't even begin to fathom your thought process there.  Sonic today is generic, traitless and marketeered.  Back in the day as the "hedgehog with attitude" this was pretty much the same, but you didn't have script and dialogue and godawful voice acting so it worked fine.

That's simply not true, Sonic has tons of personality and romance. Plus Sonic has always been about action/platforming. Even before it went 3D Sonic stood out for its unique style, sick background designs, and insanely catchy music, so what you say is just typical rubbish.

Quote
Quote from: eggFL
and then jadedly embrace this game with open arms saying oh its not made by incompetent Sega, it's the best Sonic game.
Bioware has a back catalogue of awesome (Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Mass Effect - consistent Game of the Year winners/contenders).  Sonic Team has, of late, produced mediocrity at best and downright shoddiness at worst.

Yes, but why Bioware. And why a JRPG. and why on the DS

Why not, a true Sonic game. And why not, oh let's say... Konami. And why not on Wii at least. How about it?

Seriously, what a tease. That's what this game is. Any critic who's hyping this as the best Sonic game is totally full of air.

Although the best thing that can come from all this is that it's in fact Sega's precursor to commissioning a developer to make the next FULL-FLEDGED actual Sonic game. And that's what you could call "the best Sonic game to come in recent years."

Quote
Quote from: eggFL
To me that hints bias.
Towards a multiple GOTY standard publisher instead of what Sonic Team is now?  Colour me biased.

I was thinking that it doesn't really matter to them who is making it as long as it's not Sonic Team. To them, the fact that it's a multiple GOTY standard publisher is just a bonus.

Quote
Quote from: eggFL
Or is merely the words of a gamer who is indifferent to Sonic and platforming and looking at it from a more objective standpoint.
What, pray, could be the reason for indifference to Sonic?  Perhaps shoddy games?  Given the warm reception most have given Galaxy, I'd say people still like platforming in general.

I think you're missing the point of what I said. I was meaning that a person who says Sonic Chronicles is the best Sonic game is either a Sonic hater who is just as well lying, or just someone who's opinion in regards to the series doesn't hold that much weight. Something like that.

Because anyway you know a Sonic hater would be way too eager to like this game. Knowing what they did about it, they would try to like it just as they did with Secret Rings. In fact, you could probably dress up Pokemon Mystery Dungeon as a Sonic game and it could work just as well. So as far as I know, the claim that Sonic Chronicles is the best Sonic game means nothing at all. Yes it's a Bioware game. That fact is pretty much all we have to go by.

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However as a JRPG
Bioware don't make JRPGs, they make real-time isometric view D&D based RPGs for the most part.

Well apparently they make JRPGs now, since that's what Sonic Chronicles is.

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And I meant let's see Sonic developed as a fighter PHYSICALLY. Homing attack in SA1 led to homing attack stunts in Sonic Adventure 2, and then homing attack combos in Sonic06. That is brilliance. The "Sonic spin" is corny, it's obsolete. It doesn't even fit Sonic anymore.
I think that's got a lot to do with the transition to 3D.  Oh, and "brilliance"?  lolwut?  Taking a concept and tweaking it ever so slightly so you can say "look it's a new feature honest" is easy.  I know, it's what most software developers do day-to-day.  Try some real innovation if you're going to use a word like brilliance.

What the hell are you talking about. Since when did anyone say it was a new gameplay feature. Who would honestly consider an aesthetic homing attack upgrade a "new feature". Why you would even infer that Sega was riding on that as a selling point for Sonic Adventure 2.

How is it in any way a bad thing to take something and change it to make it WAY BETTER?!

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In a JRPG or Smash Bros or a game in which Sonic is guaranteed to need to do things besides spin dashing, why does he still spin dash so much.
Evidently he isn't "guaranteed" not to.

That's a lie, since Sonic does other things in those games. (as he obviously would have to in order to work in those genres in the first place, hence the "guaranteed" part)

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The loop screenshot I posted is just an eyesore imho. The right path of evolution is for Sonic to now attack like Shadow and for loops (in general) to be replaced with more inventive and more realistic running paths.
I'll take fun over realism in a Sonic game, thanks.

Yes, I did mention realism, but I don't remember where in my post I said that Sonic should be less fun.

Please. Remember this: Everything I ever say in regards to Sonic is about making it more fun. I actually care about fun unlike some people it seems.

Anyway, with any luck, the loop in Sonic Chronicles might actually not be a scripted non-interactive sequence. Hurray for shallow tacked-on "Sonic-y" elements! imo

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anyway I never played a Bioware game but I am familiar with them from all the splash hype surrounding Mass Effect. But regardless of their track record it's still confusing and disappointing that they would make the game a JRPG. It's gonna be a "good" game I'm sure, but it's still a JRPG, and it's still not a Sonic game. It seems hard to get excited about something like this.
You're not familiar with them if all you've heard is Mass Effect hype.  As I said, multiple GOTY games stretching back over 10 years, and pretty much everything they've released has been excellent (yeah okay, KOTOR2 wasn't finished properly, one black mark and it was still very good).  They are the daddy of the RPG world (anyone who mentions Final Fantasy dies a painful death).

Perhaps I didn't say it the right way. But from hanging at Gametrailers.com and with all the anticipation of Mass Effect (AND this game), I already know everything you just said.

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Why am I excited?  Probably my favourite studio working on a game with my favourite retro character in it.  Excuse me if I think that's a recipe for awesome.

generic and traitless, too. Don't forget that.

Offline douglas

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Re: SONIC CHRONICLES: The Dark Brotherhood
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2008, 08:42:36 am »
PPA - hmm.. sure, why not. Or maybe he was 14 in all past adventures. or maybe Sonic never ages... >__>

they might have, but it doesn't matter, they are crazy. It's not even a Sonic game and they are destroying Sonic's identity
BWAHAHAHAHAHA.  HA.  HA.  Sonic has an identity.  Classic.  I can't even begin to fathom your thought process there.  Sonic today is generic, traitless and marketeered.  Back in the day as the "hedgehog with attitude" this was pretty much the same, but you didn't have script and dialogue and godawful voice acting so it worked fine.

That's simply not true, Sonic has tons of personality and romance. Plus Sonic has always been about action/platforming. Even before it went 3D Sonic stood out for its unique style, sick background designs, and insanely catchy music, so what you say is just typical rubbish.
Let's differentiate the feel/style of a Sonic game, and Sonic's personality.  I get the point on the former, although franchises have lived off different types of games for ages (pinball and RPGs seem to be the most common).  On the latter, you're talking rubbish.

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and then jadedly embrace this game with open arms saying oh its not made by incompetent Sega, it's the best Sonic game.
Bioware has a back catalogue of awesome (Baldur's Gate, KOTOR, Mass Effect - consistent Game of the Year winners/contenders).  Sonic Team has, of late, produced mediocrity at best and downright shoddiness at worst.

Yes, but why Bioware. And why a JRPG. and why on the DS
It's a spinoff.  Why not?  And if you're going to do an RPG, Bioware are the best.

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Why not, a true Sonic game. And why not, oh let's say... Konami. And why not on Wii at least. How about it?

Seriously, what a tease. That's what this game is. Any critic who's hyping this as the best Sonic game is totally full of air.

Although the best thing that can come from all this is that it's in fact Sega's precursor to commissioning a developer to make the next FULL-FLEDGED actual Sonic game. And that's what you could call "the best Sonic game to come in recent years."

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To me that hints bias.
Towards a multiple GOTY standard publisher instead of what Sonic Team is now?  Colour me biased.

I was thinking that it doesn't really matter to them who is making it as long as it's not Sonic Team. To them, the fact that it's a multiple GOTY standard publisher is just a bonus.

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Or is merely the words of a gamer who is indifferent to Sonic and platforming and looking at it from a more objective standpoint.
What, pray, could be the reason for indifference to Sonic?  Perhaps shoddy games?  Given the warm reception most have given Galaxy, I'd say people still like platforming in general.

I think you're missing the point of what I said. I was meaning that a person who says Sonic Chronicles is the best Sonic game is either a Sonic hater who is just as well lying, or just someone who's opinion in regards to the series doesn't hold that much weight. Something like that.

Because anyway you know a Sonic hater would be way too eager to like this game. Knowing what they did about it, they would try to like it just as they did with Secret Rings. In fact, you could probably dress up Pokemon Mystery Dungeon as a Sonic game and it could work just as well. So as far as I know, the claim that Sonic Chronicles is the best Sonic game means nothing at all. Yes it's a Bioware game. That fact is pretty much all we have to go by.
There you go again with that 'hater' word.  Someone having a different viewpoint does not make them a hater.  Further, thinking your opinion matters more than other people's - people who will buy the damn games - is so unbelievably arrogant I can't even begin to comment on it.  Yes, it's a spinoff, it's different, it's not a classic platformer Sonic game.  That doesn't mean it can't be the best game with Sonic as a title character in a while.
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Quote from: eggFL
However as a JRPG
Bioware don't make JRPGs, they make real-time isometric view D&D based RPGs for the most part.

Well apparently they make JRPGs now, since that's what Sonic Chronicles is.

Quote
Quote from: eggFL
And I meant let's see Sonic developed as a fighter PHYSICALLY. Homing attack in SA1 led to homing attack stunts in Sonic Adventure 2, and then homing attack combos in Sonic06. That is brilliance. The "Sonic spin" is corny, it's obsolete. It doesn't even fit Sonic anymore.
I think that's got a lot to do with the transition to 3D.  Oh, and "brilliance"?  lolwut?  Taking a concept and tweaking it ever so slightly so you can say "look it's a new feature honest" is easy.  I know, it's what most software developers do day-to-day.  Try some real innovation if you're going to use a word like brilliance.

What the hell are you talking about. Since when did anyone say it was a new gameplay feature. Who would honestly consider an aesthetic homing attack upgrade a "new feature". Why you would even infer that Sega was riding on that as a selling point for Sonic Adventure 2.

How is it in any way a bad thing to take something and change it to make it WAY BETTER?!
I didn't say it was a bad thing.  Evolutionary design is fundamental to a franchise.  I just said it hardly counts as "brilliant".

Quote from: eggFL
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Quote from: eggFL
In a JRPG or Smash Bros or a game in which Sonic is guaranteed to need to do things besides spin dashing, why does he still spin dash so much.
Evidently he isn't "guaranteed" not to.

That's a lie, since Sonic does other things in those games. (as he obviously would have to in order to work in those genres in the first place, hence the "guaranteed" part)
Sorry, I misread, I thought you meant he was guaranteed never to use spindash.  My bad; however why not use it?  It's definitively Sonic in a way that generic fighting just isn't.  If you can integrate it into other gameplay what's wrong with that?  I thought you held incremental design as "brilliant"?

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The loop screenshot I posted is just an eyesore imho. The right path of evolution is for Sonic to now attack like Shadow and for loops (in general) to be replaced with more inventive and more realistic running paths.
I'll take fun over realism in a Sonic game, thanks.

Yes, I did mention realism, but I don't remember where in my post I said that Sonic should be less fun.

Please. Remember this: Everything I ever say in regards to Sonic is about making it more fun. I actually care about fun unlike some people it seems.

Anyway, with any luck, the loop in Sonic Chronicles might actually not be a scripted non-interactive sequence. Hurray for shallow tacked-on "Sonic-y" elements! imo
It depends; if stuff like loops and the spindash are well integrated into the game they help make it familiar to the franchise, that's classic spinoff design.  At what point does that and features being tacked-on overlap?  Couldn't you say a Sonic game is just a generic platformer with Sonic-y gimmicks tacked on?  You could argue that, but they're part of the identity of that game so most wouldn't describe it like that.

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anyway I never played a Bioware game but I am familiar with them from all the splash hype surrounding Mass Effect. But regardless of their track record it's still confusing and disappointing that they would make the game a JRPG. It's gonna be a "good" game I'm sure, but it's still a JRPG, and it's still not a Sonic game. It seems hard to get excited about something like this.
You're not familiar with them if all you've heard is Mass Effect hype.  As I said, multiple GOTY games stretching back over 10 years, and pretty much everything they've released has been excellent (yeah okay, KOTOR2 wasn't finished properly, one black mark and it was still very good).  They are the daddy of the RPG world (anyone who mentions Final Fantasy dies a painful death).

Perhaps I didn't say it the right way. But from hanging at Gametrailers.com and with all the anticipation of Mass Effect (AND this game), I already know everything you just said.
Okay, here's the difference I see.  I've been playing Bioware games since 1998, I've played just about everything they've produced as a company, and I'm very familiar with their evolution - pretty much the same as with Sonic games, in fact.  You've read some Mass Effect hype and a bit of background.  It's natural that a game studio I've grown up with and loved is going to make me excited with any release, let alone one with my favourite game character in it.  Is that unreasonable?

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Why am I excited?  Probably my favourite studio working on a game with my favourite retro character in it.  Excuse me if I think that's a recipe for awesome.

generic and traitless, too. Don't forget that.
Right, let me explain this fully.  Original Sonic was fast and had attitude.  That was it, and that was all there needed to be for those games.  It's all you need for an amazing platform lead, I mean how deep is Mario's character?  However, if you're going to play off storyline you have to do more than that, and Sonic as done by modern Sonic Team is just far, far too shallow to be interesting on that level.  Probably Bioware's biggest strength is their rich, well developed characters, and I therefor hold out hope that they'd be able to do something with the Sonic cast.

Now you're going to come back and say Sonic's personality is deep and rich and whatever other bullshit, and I'm unlikely to change your mind on that, but I ask you to think about: what genuine personality traits any Sonic character has; what stereotyping they fall into and any differentiating factors that make them in any way original or innovative; what market they were created to appeal to and again if they display characteristics outwith the box on that one; and if their character has developed through the storylines.

Again, I emphasise that a good platformer doesn't need the heavy-duty characterisations or storyline, and doing them badly is worse than not doing them at all.

I'll leave you with a final thought, which is: you appear to be annoyed that we're eagerly anticipating this game rather than the next 360/PS3/Wii platform title.  I put it to you that your annoyance has far less to do with Chronicles than it has to with the fact that most of the rest of the world don't like the current Sonic games, don't expect an improvement and therefore won't care about the next one.  Believe me, I'd love nothing more than for Sonic Team to come out with a game that destroys everything before it (SSR briefly looked like it could be it, sadly not); I just have very little reason to believe Sonic Team can (or want to) do it.  Of course, to you that makes me a 'hater', but whatever.
This topic has now been officially won by me.  Never mind, you might do better next time!
www.douglasgresham.co.uk - it's in the intarwebs, it must be true!

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