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1
Information Kiosk / Future feature additions - version differences, proof, chart filtering
« on: April 14, 2014, 04:27:02 pm »
We're looking at implementing some new features onto the site: a system for handling proof and version differences, and the ability to filter the charts. Gerbil says these are feasible to add onto the site, and further, that he's willing to code them in sometime soon, so I'd like to push forward on this and make it happen. This will be a fairly big change, so I wanted to get a discussion going on the forum first to get everyone's feedback on this before going through and adding anything.
There are three components here:
1. Version differences - When you go to submit a stat, after selecting your game, you will be asked what platform you played the stat on. You can select any of the systems the game was released on, or emulator (where applicable). If you played on an emulator, you'll be asked to enter which emulator specifically you used. These will be displayed on the charts in the form of an extra column listing what version the stat was performed on.
2. Proof - You will be able to attach proof to a stat on the stat confirm screen, in the form of either a video, a picture, or an emulator input file. Small files (pictures/input files) can be uploaded to the site directly. Larger ones (like videos) will need to be uploaded to an external site and linked. This'll be shown on the charts as an extra column with a small icon linking to the proof. Any stat with any proof attached to it will be considered a "proven" stat, regardless of the type. Proving stats is not required. However, unproven stats will be displayed less prominently on the charts (similarly to how it works on the ZSR leaderboards).
3. Charts filtering - This is what makes the above two features worth it. All stats will be displayed by default. However, there'll be a few new controls on chart view pages, allowing you to filter what stats you want to see and which you don't. Here's a few of the controls I have in mind:
a. Version - You can filter the charts so that only stats played on a particular version of the game are shown.
b. Emulators - You can choose to hide stats performed on emulator.
c. Proof - You can filter to only display stats with proof, or filter out picture proof as well to only show videos.
Other things:
To reiterate one particular point, the proposed emulation rules from the last couple weeks will not be enacted with this system, since the additional data on whether a stat was emulated or not as well as the filters render it moot.
Anyone who has constructive feedback, feel free to post. However, do note that we will be moderating this thread a little heavier than usual. Being insulting towards others, derailing the thread, etc. will net you a warning or a tempban.
This thread will stay open for one week, so I want to encourage everyone to make the most out of it. Anyone who has an opinion and can express it well, please post.
There are three components here:
1. Version differences - When you go to submit a stat, after selecting your game, you will be asked what platform you played the stat on. You can select any of the systems the game was released on, or emulator (where applicable). If you played on an emulator, you'll be asked to enter which emulator specifically you used. These will be displayed on the charts in the form of an extra column listing what version the stat was performed on.
2. Proof - You will be able to attach proof to a stat on the stat confirm screen, in the form of either a video, a picture, or an emulator input file. Small files (pictures/input files) can be uploaded to the site directly. Larger ones (like videos) will need to be uploaded to an external site and linked. This'll be shown on the charts as an extra column with a small icon linking to the proof. Any stat with any proof attached to it will be considered a "proven" stat, regardless of the type. Proving stats is not required. However, unproven stats will be displayed less prominently on the charts (similarly to how it works on the ZSR leaderboards).
3. Charts filtering - This is what makes the above two features worth it. All stats will be displayed by default. However, there'll be a few new controls on chart view pages, allowing you to filter what stats you want to see and which you don't. Here's a few of the controls I have in mind:
a. Version - You can filter the charts so that only stats played on a particular version of the game are shown.
b. Emulators - You can choose to hide stats performed on emulator.
c. Proof - You can filter to only display stats with proof, or filter out picture proof as well to only show videos.
Other things:
- Old stats submitted prior to these new features being implemented will be treated as unproven versionless stats by default. They will still display on the charts and they will still count, but they will not display if version or proof filters are applied. To remedy this, we'll have a stats edit page, where you can go back and apply version data/proof links for your old stats without having to resubmit them.
- Total charts will only be marked as proven or with a certain version if every single stat submitted in a given division has those tags.
- Overall charts will be determined by all stats submitted to a given game, regardless of proof status or platform.
- All stats submitted to the site are still expected to be legitimate, proven or not. We will still call out players who are suspected of either posting false unproven stats, or of creating fake proof.
- This would be implemented instead of any of the emulation rules that have been being discussed over the last couple weeks. Personally I think it solves most of the issues that were brought up much better than any of the other solutions that have been suggested. You will also still have the option of calling BS on stats if you suspect they were done unfairly, so this is not a free pass for inaccurately emulated stats to stay in first place.
- Anyone can compete however they want. Casual, hardcore, link proof, don't link proof, use emulators, ban emulators, whatever. Filter the charts to your liking. Only compete with proven stats if that's what you want. Hide emulated stats if you don't think emulators are legitimate. Don't bother with any of this if you don't really care and just want to submit some stats for fun.
- This will finally settle the long-running version differences issue. Charts that have a significant advantage in one version or another, like Final Egg in Sonic Adventure (DX), can now be filtered by version. If you're stuck with the Gamecube version, now it's easier to simply only compete with other Gamecube times.
- The extra layer of verification will attract new players to the site without negatively affecting anyone already here.
- Having more media available will make it easier for new players to learn strategies and techniques.
- We can basically get rid of the videos page entirely, as it'll be easier to find videos by browsing the charts themselves. :P
- You can get a small sitewide bonus for proving stats. Nothing huge - just small tiered bonuses based on how much proof you've submitted for a given game, maxing out at 10% of the game's total sitewide worth. So say a game is worth 100 points, and 100% of your stats are proven; you get a 10-point sitewide bonus. If you've proven 10%, you get one point; 70%, 7 points... etc.
- Filtering overall charts by platform, so we could have separate leaderships/championships for different systems, particularly in games with significant version differences.
- Similarly, site announcements for new records/leaders/champions for specific platforms would be cool.
- Being able to set default filters in your profile.
- Being able to submit multiple stats from different platforms on the same chart.
- Picture proof will probably have to be disallowed for some games; for example, there's some GameGear games where the results screen doesn't show any indication of what level was actually played.
To reiterate one particular point, the proposed emulation rules from the last couple weeks will not be enacted with this system, since the additional data on whether a stat was emulated or not as well as the filters render it moot.
Anyone who has constructive feedback, feel free to post. However, do note that we will be moderating this thread a little heavier than usual. Being insulting towards others, derailing the thread, etc. will net you a warning or a tempban.
This thread will stay open for one week, so I want to encourage everyone to make the most out of it. Anyone who has an opinion and can express it well, please post.
2
News and Updates / New rules regarding emulators
« on: April 01, 2014, 11:47:45 pm »
Following a discussion in the forums a little while ago, we've implemented some new rules regarding emulators. From now on, stats achieved on emulators are required to have proof. Since there's no function to upload proof directly to the site as of right now, instead we're requesting that you upload your proof somewhere and link to it through your stat comment. In accordance, I've created a thread where you can attach your proof files to a forum post, but if you'd like to upload elsewhere instead, that's fine.
There are a couple reasons for this change. First, it's been shown time and time again that emulators make it significantly easier to cheat. When someone is called out for BSing, and the only proof they provide is a YouTube video that was done on an emulator, it adds an extra layer of confusion since we not only have to verify the video itself is legitimate, we also have to figure out whether it was done using emulator functions or not. Having more data (input files) should help to alleviate this somewhat and make cheating significantly more difficult. Second, emulators are not perfect and sometimes have accuracy issues that might be difficult to pick up on. With proof available, it gives all competitors an opportunity to verify for themselves that the stats they're competing against were accomplished fairly, without any unfair advantages caused by inaccurate emulation.
I also want to highlight one other somewhat recent rule. It's not new, but I think it's worth emphasizing. If you can't run the game at full speed, your stat is void. Don't submit it. If your emulator is lagging, at best, you will gain an unfair advantage due to having a wider window to react to things with. At worst, it can make the game behave differently than it would otherwise and give you an unfair advantage. Either way, it's not acceptable.
These rules are kind of a middle ground between leaving things the way they were before and banning emulators (or at least some emulators) entirely. Hopefully this will help make competition more fair to everyone.
If you notice any emulated stats that are in violation of the rules, let an admin know (me, Thorn, or Zeupar) and we'll handle it.
edit: I should add that stats already on the charts without proof will be grandfathered in, because I don't think anyone wants to dig through 10 years of stats and suspend all of the ones that don't have proof.
iOS and Android titles are exempt from this rule because the performance of the game can vary by a lot even when it's not being emulated.
There are a couple reasons for this change. First, it's been shown time and time again that emulators make it significantly easier to cheat. When someone is called out for BSing, and the only proof they provide is a YouTube video that was done on an emulator, it adds an extra layer of confusion since we not only have to verify the video itself is legitimate, we also have to figure out whether it was done using emulator functions or not. Having more data (input files) should help to alleviate this somewhat and make cheating significantly more difficult. Second, emulators are not perfect and sometimes have accuracy issues that might be difficult to pick up on. With proof available, it gives all competitors an opportunity to verify for themselves that the stats they're competing against were accomplished fairly, without any unfair advantages caused by inaccurate emulation.
I also want to highlight one other somewhat recent rule. It's not new, but I think it's worth emphasizing. If you can't run the game at full speed, your stat is void. Don't submit it. If your emulator is lagging, at best, you will gain an unfair advantage due to having a wider window to react to things with. At worst, it can make the game behave differently than it would otherwise and give you an unfair advantage. Either way, it's not acceptable.
These rules are kind of a middle ground between leaving things the way they were before and banning emulators (or at least some emulators) entirely. Hopefully this will help make competition more fair to everyone.
If you notice any emulated stats that are in violation of the rules, let an admin know (me, Thorn, or Zeupar) and we'll handle it.
edit: I should add that stats already on the charts without proof will be grandfathered in, because I don't think anyone wants to dig through 10 years of stats and suspend all of the ones that don't have proof.
iOS and Android titles are exempt from this rule because the performance of the game can vary by a lot even when it's not being emulated.
3
Competition Central / Emulator Proof Thread
« on: April 01, 2014, 11:30:24 pm »
From now on, stats performed on an emulator are required to have proof attached to them, in the form of an emulator movie file. This thread exists to make the process a bit easier. Simply make a post here, with whatever files you need attached to your post, then link it in your stat comment. If you'd rather upload it somewhere else, that's fine too; this thread is just one option.
Reminder of the rules regarding emulators:
- If you do anything on the emulator that can't be replicated on console, your stat is void. This includes emulator functions like save states and frame advance, but it also includes in-game behavior that can't be replicated on console.
- If you/your emulator can't consistently run the game at full speed (usually 60 FPS) without frame drops, your stat is void.
Remember that you can attach multiple files to one post, so please do that where possible using the modify button to cut down on spam a little. Also, please say in your post what game/stat the movie is for and what emulator you used to achieve it.
Hopefully in the future we can have a system more nicely integrated into the site, but for now this is what we've got.
Reminder of the rules regarding emulators:
- If you do anything on the emulator that can't be replicated on console, your stat is void. This includes emulator functions like save states and frame advance, but it also includes in-game behavior that can't be replicated on console.
- If you/your emulator can't consistently run the game at full speed (usually 60 FPS) without frame drops, your stat is void.
Remember that you can attach multiple files to one post, so please do that where possible using the modify button to cut down on spam a little. Also, please say in your post what game/stat the movie is for and what emulator you used to achieve it.
Hopefully in the future we can have a system more nicely integrated into the site, but for now this is what we've got.
4
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: Dale2e1
« on: February 25, 2014, 05:38:04 pm »
Please provide proof of your two Sonic Heroes boss submissions:
* Egg Hawk (Dark) - 0:12.24
* Robot Storm (Dark) - 2:25.00
Acceptable proof can be in the form of either a video showing your run of these stages or a screenshot of the stat screen on stage select.
* Egg Hawk (Dark) - 0:12.24
* Robot Storm (Dark) - 2:25.00
Acceptable proof can be in the form of either a video showing your run of these stages or a screenshot of the stat screen on stage select.
5
Leaderboard Disputes / Reminder: The rules of LD
« on: December 31, 2013, 12:31:43 pm »
This seems like a good time to reiterate this, since apparently the other sticky topic about this isn't enough: Don't post in this board without admin permission unless you are the person being called out.
Given the sensitive nature of threads in this board, chances are if you are posting without consulting one of us, then you are very likely to derail the thread if not make it much harder for us to actually determine what's going on. If you feel you have something valid or helpful to post, you can reach Thorn, Zeupar or me through IRC or forum PM.
From now on, violations of this rule will be taken more seriously.
Given the sensitive nature of threads in this board, chances are if you are posting without consulting one of us, then you are very likely to derail the thread if not make it much harder for us to actually determine what's going on. If you feel you have something valid or helpful to post, you can reach Thorn, Zeupar or me through IRC or forum PM.
From now on, violations of this rule will be taken more seriously.
6
News and Updates / TSC Twitch Team!
« on: December 09, 2013, 01:07:10 am »
Thanks to DsS, we've got our own Twitch team now! If you like to stream and you wanna be in the team, just post in here with a link to your channel and we'll send you an invite!
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
http://www.twitch.tv/team/tsc
7
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: dwhitethegamer
« on: November 18, 2013, 04:21:56 pm »
We need to see proof of the following Sonic Rush Adventure times:
- Plant Kingdom 1 (Sonic) - 1:00:07
- Plant Kingdom 2 (Sonic) - 0:55:09
- Machine Labyrinth 1 (Sonic) - 0:52:12
- Haunted Ship 1 (Sonic) - 0:57:24
- Red Emerald (Sonic) - 0:45:12
- Blue Emerald (Sonic) - 0:54:25
- Green Emerald (Sonic) - 0:25:13
- White Emerald (Sonic) - 0:31:25
- Light Blue Emerald (Sonic) - 0:33:28
- Purple Emerald (Sonic) - 0:38:46
- Plant Kingdom 1 (Sonic) - 1:00:07
- Plant Kingdom 2 (Sonic) - 0:55:09
- Machine Labyrinth 1 (Sonic) - 0:52:12
- Haunted Ship 1 (Sonic) - 0:57:24
- Red Emerald (Sonic) - 0:45:12
- Blue Emerald (Sonic) - 0:54:25
- Green Emerald (Sonic) - 0:25:13
- White Emerald (Sonic) - 0:31:25
- Light Blue Emerald (Sonic) - 0:33:28
- Purple Emerald (Sonic) - 0:38:46
8
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: sonicspeedruner
« on: November 15, 2013, 10:41:43 pm »
Please provide proof of the following stats in the form of either a video of the stat being obtained, or a picture of the results screen or menu stats screen:
Sonic Adventure (DX)
Twinkle Park (Sonic) - 0:01:02
Final Egg (Sonic) - 0:08:45
Windy Valley (Gamma) - 12:15:22
Emerald Coast (Gamma) - 3:46:89
Sonic Heroes
Egg Hawk (Dark) - 0:19:70
Team One (Sonic) - 0:07:45
Team One (Dark) - 0:08:09
Team One (Chaotix) - 0:09:40
Team Two (Rose) - 0:08:24
Metal Madness (Sonic) - 2:41:18
Sonic Adventure (DX)
Twinkle Park (Sonic) - 0:01:02
Final Egg (Sonic) - 0:08:45
Windy Valley (Gamma) - 12:15:22
Emerald Coast (Gamma) - 3:46:89
Sonic Heroes
Egg Hawk (Dark) - 0:19:70
Team One (Sonic) - 0:07:45
Team One (Dark) - 0:08:09
Team One (Chaotix) - 0:09:40
Team Two (Rose) - 0:08:24
Metal Madness (Sonic) - 2:41:18
9
News and Updates / Sonic Lost World charts are now live!
« on: November 03, 2013, 12:42:05 pm »
The charts for both versions of Sonic Lost World are now up! As always, make sure you read the rules first and double check your submissions to make sure they're correct. Happy competing!
10
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: FocusSight64
« on: July 08, 2013, 06:24:57 am »
We need to see proof of the following stats:
Sonic 1 2013
- Green Hill 1 (Sonic) - Rings
- Green Hill 2 (Sonic) - Rings
- Marble 3 (Knuckles) - Rings
- Star Light 3 (Knuckles) - Rings
^ For these we need either a video or a description of how you got the stats. A picture will not suffice.
- Scrap Brain 3 (Tails) - Times
- Final Zone (Sonic) - Times
- Special Stage 6 (Sonic) - Times
Sonic 06
- Wave Ocean - Hard (Sonic) - Times
- Dusty Desert - Hard (Silver) - Times
- Iblis Phase 2 (Shadow) - Times
We would appreciate if you don't submit any more stats until this is resolved.
Sonic 1 2013
- Green Hill 1 (Sonic) - Rings
- Green Hill 2 (Sonic) - Rings
- Marble 3 (Knuckles) - Rings
- Star Light 3 (Knuckles) - Rings
^ For these we need either a video or a description of how you got the stats. A picture will not suffice.
- Scrap Brain 3 (Tails) - Times
- Final Zone (Sonic) - Times
- Special Stage 6 (Sonic) - Times
Sonic 06
- Wave Ocean - Hard (Sonic) - Times
- Dusty Desert - Hard (Silver) - Times
- Iblis Phase 2 (Shadow) - Times
We would appreciate if you don't submit any more stats until this is resolved.
11
News and Updates / Recent Rule Changes
« on: May 11, 2013, 06:44:28 pm »
There's been a few rule changes over the last few months. Most of these have been announced on the TSC Twitter, but if you've missed those then here's a quick list of what's been updated.
General: The original game and all its contents must be preserved and unmodified.
Sonic Generations: Modifications of any kind, including cosmetic mods, are disallowed.
This rule should have been a no-brainer, but cosmetic Sonic Generations mods were generally overlooked, as they didn't have an effect on gameplay. However, it was recently found that a few "cosmetic" mods did have a small impact on gameplay that gave an advantage to players running mods. To that end, on top of the general rule, mods are explicitly banned again under the Sonic Generations rules, as that's where most of the issues were.
Even though this was mostly an issue with Generations, the rule applies to all games. Play the vanilla version.
As a side note - if you guys see any stats on the Sonic Generations charts that are in violation of this rule, let us know and we'll take care of it.
General: Any game running on a PC or emulator must perform at full speed while playing the game you're submitting for (60 FPS in most cases). The exception is if lag is caused by the game, rather than by bad hardware or emulation.
This is to prevent players from being able to slow down the game akin to using the slowdown function on an emulator and gain an advantage over players running the game at full speed. The rule is largely intended to combat bad hardware or bad emulation, though, so it only applies to PC games, and there's an exception for lag caused by in-game bugs.
Sonic Heroes: Use of the Team Blast Glitch -- switching characters while simultaneously using Thunder Shoot to rapidly fill the Team Blast gauge -- is forbidden for all Team Dark charts except Rings.
The Team Blast Glitch was previously banned for all charts except Chaotix Rings. This rule was somewhat arbitrary and inconsistent with our other rules, so it was removed. TBG is still banned for Team Dark charts, though, as it breaks every level excessively to the point of reducing them to TBGing over and over.
Sonic Generations: In Speed Highway, resetting a bell to make it dispense more rings than it should is not allowed.
This is a ring scalping bug that allowed you to collect infinite rings in Speed Highway that was largely forgotten about until recently; it's banned now.
That should sum it all up - now go submit some stats :P
General: The original game and all its contents must be preserved and unmodified.
Sonic Generations: Modifications of any kind, including cosmetic mods, are disallowed.
This rule should have been a no-brainer, but cosmetic Sonic Generations mods were generally overlooked, as they didn't have an effect on gameplay. However, it was recently found that a few "cosmetic" mods did have a small impact on gameplay that gave an advantage to players running mods. To that end, on top of the general rule, mods are explicitly banned again under the Sonic Generations rules, as that's where most of the issues were.
Even though this was mostly an issue with Generations, the rule applies to all games. Play the vanilla version.
As a side note - if you guys see any stats on the Sonic Generations charts that are in violation of this rule, let us know and we'll take care of it.
General: Any game running on a PC or emulator must perform at full speed while playing the game you're submitting for (60 FPS in most cases). The exception is if lag is caused by the game, rather than by bad hardware or emulation.
This is to prevent players from being able to slow down the game akin to using the slowdown function on an emulator and gain an advantage over players running the game at full speed. The rule is largely intended to combat bad hardware or bad emulation, though, so it only applies to PC games, and there's an exception for lag caused by in-game bugs.
Sonic Heroes: Use of the Team Blast Glitch -- switching characters while simultaneously using Thunder Shoot to rapidly fill the Team Blast gauge -- is forbidden for all Team Dark charts except Rings.
The Team Blast Glitch was previously banned for all charts except Chaotix Rings. This rule was somewhat arbitrary and inconsistent with our other rules, so it was removed. TBG is still banned for Team Dark charts, though, as it breaks every level excessively to the point of reducing them to TBGing over and over.
Sonic Generations: In Speed Highway, resetting a bell to make it dispense more rings than it should is not allowed.
This is a ring scalping bug that allowed you to collect infinite rings in Speed Highway that was largely forgotten about until recently; it's banned now.
That should sum it all up - now go submit some stats :P
12
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: Markoszarrate
« on: March 24, 2013, 03:06:10 am »
A few years back, you submitted a time of 3:10 on Death Egg 2, Sonic. Would you mind explaining how you got this stat? Also, how exactly did you forget about the second and third bosses on your older submissions on this chart?
http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_&_knuckles/times/death_egg_2/sonic
http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_&_knuckles/times/death_egg_2/sonic
13
Beef / The direction of TSC
« on: February 20, 2013, 12:41:43 pm »
I'd like to get a discussion going on the direction of TSC; that is, the issues currently facing us, and what we can do about them to ultimately improve and expand the site. There are a few places we could stand to make some improvements, so I'm going to bring up a few points and I'd appreciate hearing everyone's thoughts on the matter.
---
I'm going to start by addressing what I feel is the biggest issue we have at the moment and the main reason I'm starting this topic: proof. TSC has always run on the honor system. You submit whatever you want, and we typically catch out cheaters by noting suspicious stats and patterns. In my opinion, we should seriously consider changing this policy. Times have changed since TSC started, and almost everyone has access to a camera of some form, especially since most smartphones have a camera built in, on top of the fact that a lot of competitors have access to direct capture methods.
This comes with pros and cons. The biggest con is inconveniencing competitors, because we have a -lot- of charts, and this is a valid concern. However, I think the pros outweigh the cons, because the pros are HUGE: this essentially eliminates BSing. When you're required to show proof for every record, it would be extremely hard to get away with making up times. This would also vastly simplify the process of correcting typoed stats.
Along with that, this gives anyone outside TSC a lot more confidence with our charts. Imagine browsing the site for the first time, and learning how the charts work. It is not hard to figure out how easy it is to submit stats you didn't get. Having more strict proof requirements and plainly displaying proof alongside stats will make it much easier for people to trust in the legitimacy of our charts and become competitors themselves.
We also have methods of catching out BSers, but it typically takes time to determine for sure one way or the other whether someone's cheating, and in that time we have illegitimate stats on the charts. This isn't really acceptable.
My proposal is that we require proof for all red and platinum stats. This would only apply to stats submitted after the system is put into place, but I think it'd be cool to also have a method to allow people to retroactively go back and attach proof to their old stats, if they'd like to. Proof can be in the form of either a video of the run or a picture of the results screen or stat screen. Requiring it for only top stats is a compromise between requiring proof for everything and not requiring proof at all, but if anyone has any other ideas that would put less of a burden on competitors I'm open to hearing it. I really think we should change -something- though.
---
Other areas of potential improvement:
1. Overhauling the charts. We currently don't have any system in place to deal with version differences, DLC, etc. The current approach to version differences of "just use whatever version is best" works ok, but it's basically ignoring what is a fairly significant problem. Competitors shouldn't be penalized for not having the console with the best version of the game. Also, the way DLC is handled on the site is hacky and inconsistent.
I think ideally the system the charts run on needs to be updated to fix these things, but given how much of the burden of actually doing this would fall on Gerbil (ie: pretty much all of it), it's up to him how far we go with updating the charts, if we do it at all. I recall him telling me there were some technical reasons that adding support for handling version differences would be extremely difficult. It's a big enough issue that I still think we should explore fixing it if there's any way it could be done, but if we can't, it would be a shame, but oh well. This old post lines out how I think a system accounting for version differences could be implemented.
2. It would be really cool to integrate some form of livestream support on the site. Something akin to SRL's stream page would be neat to integrate into TSC.
3. I'm wondering if it would be worth having an official TSC Twitter account, as most decently big sites seem to have one. We could use it to promote TSC and the marathons, announce charts/rule changes, plug TSC Twitch streams, or highlight new achievements on the charts.
---
Thoughts? If you've got anything else in mind we can improve on that I didn't bring up, feel free to mention it.
---
I'm going to start by addressing what I feel is the biggest issue we have at the moment and the main reason I'm starting this topic: proof. TSC has always run on the honor system. You submit whatever you want, and we typically catch out cheaters by noting suspicious stats and patterns. In my opinion, we should seriously consider changing this policy. Times have changed since TSC started, and almost everyone has access to a camera of some form, especially since most smartphones have a camera built in, on top of the fact that a lot of competitors have access to direct capture methods.
This comes with pros and cons. The biggest con is inconveniencing competitors, because we have a -lot- of charts, and this is a valid concern. However, I think the pros outweigh the cons, because the pros are HUGE: this essentially eliminates BSing. When you're required to show proof for every record, it would be extremely hard to get away with making up times. This would also vastly simplify the process of correcting typoed stats.
Along with that, this gives anyone outside TSC a lot more confidence with our charts. Imagine browsing the site for the first time, and learning how the charts work. It is not hard to figure out how easy it is to submit stats you didn't get. Having more strict proof requirements and plainly displaying proof alongside stats will make it much easier for people to trust in the legitimacy of our charts and become competitors themselves.
We also have methods of catching out BSers, but it typically takes time to determine for sure one way or the other whether someone's cheating, and in that time we have illegitimate stats on the charts. This isn't really acceptable.
My proposal is that we require proof for all red and platinum stats. This would only apply to stats submitted after the system is put into place, but I think it'd be cool to also have a method to allow people to retroactively go back and attach proof to their old stats, if they'd like to. Proof can be in the form of either a video of the run or a picture of the results screen or stat screen. Requiring it for only top stats is a compromise between requiring proof for everything and not requiring proof at all, but if anyone has any other ideas that would put less of a burden on competitors I'm open to hearing it. I really think we should change -something- though.
---
Other areas of potential improvement:
1. Overhauling the charts. We currently don't have any system in place to deal with version differences, DLC, etc. The current approach to version differences of "just use whatever version is best" works ok, but it's basically ignoring what is a fairly significant problem. Competitors shouldn't be penalized for not having the console with the best version of the game. Also, the way DLC is handled on the site is hacky and inconsistent.
I think ideally the system the charts run on needs to be updated to fix these things, but given how much of the burden of actually doing this would fall on Gerbil (ie: pretty much all of it), it's up to him how far we go with updating the charts, if we do it at all. I recall him telling me there were some technical reasons that adding support for handling version differences would be extremely difficult. It's a big enough issue that I still think we should explore fixing it if there's any way it could be done, but if we can't, it would be a shame, but oh well. This old post lines out how I think a system accounting for version differences could be implemented.
2. It would be really cool to integrate some form of livestream support on the site. Something akin to SRL's stream page would be neat to integrate into TSC.
3. I'm wondering if it would be worth having an official TSC Twitter account, as most decently big sites seem to have one. We could use it to promote TSC and the marathons, announce charts/rule changes, plug TSC Twitch streams, or highlight new achievements on the charts.
---
Thoughts? If you've got anything else in mind we can improve on that I didn't bring up, feel free to mention it.
14
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: ShinigamiMachine
« on: November 28, 2012, 01:45:10 pm »
http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_advance_3/bosses/route_99_boss/any_team
Can you explain how you got this stat?
Can you explain how you got this stat?
15
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: ASniperFanboy
« on: November 21, 2012, 04:10:46 pm »
Please provide proof of the following stats in the form of a screenshot of the stat screen:
Sonic Adventure 2
- Metal Harbor 1 Times
- Green Forest 1 Times
- Final Rush 1 Times
- Final Rush 3 Times
- Sky Rail 1 Times
Sonic Unleashed 360-PS3
- Windmill Isle 2 Day Times
- Arid Sands 1 Day Times
- Jungle Joyride 1 Day Times
Sonic Adventure 2
- Metal Harbor 1 Times
- Green Forest 1 Times
- Final Rush 1 Times
- Final Rush 3 Times
- Sky Rail 1 Times
Sonic Unleashed 360-PS3
- Windmill Isle 2 Day Times
- Arid Sands 1 Day Times
- Jungle Joyride 1 Day Times
16
Competition Central / Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed Charts
« on: November 19, 2012, 08:48:21 pm »
Surprised no one else has gotten this discussion going yet, as the game's been out for a few days (and was released early before that).
I still haven't unlocked most everything, myself, so I'm not sure exactly on the charts, but I think we'd probably follow the same chart structure as the first game; that is, single lap and three lap charts for each track. Anyone allowed, since there's obviously way too many different characters and mods to track all of them.
Track list:
- Ocean View
- Samba Studios
- Carrier Zone
- Dragon Canyon
- Temple Trouble
- Galactic Parade
- Seasonal Shrines
- Rogue's Landing
- Dream Valley
- Chilly Castle
- Graffiti City
- Sanctuary Falls
- Graveyard Gig
- Adder's Lair
- Burning Depths
- Race of Ages
- Sunshine Tour
- Shibuya Downtown
- Roulette Road
- Egg Hangar
The only other thing that seems to make sense is if we tracked some of the missions in World Tour. They don't seem to save your stats though so I don't really know if this is feasible for any of them.
Thoughts?
edit: Oh, also, there's the preorder DLC track - Outrun Bay. Precedent is that we wouldn't track it, though, yeah? Is Metal Sonic allowed in ASR1?
edit 2: Now that I think about it we could also track Grand Prix times. Stats for each cup are saved and there's actually leaderboards for it. That one has:
- Dragon Cup
- Rogue Cup
- Emerald Cup
- Arcade Cup
- Classic Cup
Then mirrored versions of each. Speaking of which... do we want to track mirrored versions of each track?
I still haven't unlocked most everything, myself, so I'm not sure exactly on the charts, but I think we'd probably follow the same chart structure as the first game; that is, single lap and three lap charts for each track. Anyone allowed, since there's obviously way too many different characters and mods to track all of them.
Track list:
- Ocean View
- Samba Studios
- Carrier Zone
- Dragon Canyon
- Temple Trouble
- Galactic Parade
- Seasonal Shrines
- Rogue's Landing
- Dream Valley
- Chilly Castle
- Graffiti City
- Sanctuary Falls
- Graveyard Gig
- Adder's Lair
- Burning Depths
- Race of Ages
- Sunshine Tour
- Shibuya Downtown
- Roulette Road
- Egg Hangar
The only other thing that seems to make sense is if we tracked some of the missions in World Tour. They don't seem to save your stats though so I don't really know if this is feasible for any of them.
Thoughts?
edit: Oh, also, there's the preorder DLC track - Outrun Bay. Precedent is that we wouldn't track it, though, yeah? Is Metal Sonic allowed in ASR1?
edit 2: Now that I think about it we could also track Grand Prix times. Stats for each cup are saved and there's actually leaderboards for it. That one has:
- Dragon Cup
- Rogue Cup
- Emerald Cup
- Arcade Cup
- Classic Cup
Then mirrored versions of each. Speaking of which... do we want to track mirrored versions of each track?
17
TSC Race Night / Race Night October-December Schedule
« on: October 24, 2012, 07:00:45 pm »
So you may recall we've been talking about implementing a preset rotation of games for Race Night. Each rotation will last a few months, and then we'll move onto a different one. This will allow us to be more flexible with new ideas being brought up or feedback on the system or game rotation. That being said, here's what we'll be racing from now until the end of December:
October 27: Sonic CD (2011)
November 03: Sonic Adventure (DX)
November 10: Sonic 1 (GG)
November 17: Unofficial Race Night
November 24: Sonic 4 Episode 1
December 01: Sonic 06
December 08: Sonic 2
December 15: Sonic & All-Stars Racing Transformed
December 22: Knuckles Chaotix
December 29: Sonic Riders
18
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: chackoman15379
« on: October 24, 2012, 03:13:39 pm »
Mind explaining why you've BSed three Sonic Unleashed 360 scores, after previously recieving a warning for breaking the rules?
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/chackoman15379/sonic_unleashed_360-ps3/scores/skyscraper_scamper_1/day
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/chackoman15379/sonic_unleashed_360-ps3/scores/dragon_road_1/day
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/chackoman15379/sonic_unleashed_360-ps3/scores/windmill_isle_2/day
On top of that, you're also claiming the score record for City Escape Modern:
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/chackoman15379/sonic_generations/scores/city_escape/modern
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/chackoman15379/sonic_unleashed_360-ps3/scores/skyscraper_scamper_1/day
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/chackoman15379/sonic_unleashed_360-ps3/scores/dragon_road_1/day
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/chackoman15379/sonic_unleashed_360-ps3/scores/windmill_isle_2/day
On top of that, you're also claiming the score record for City Escape Modern:
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/chackoman15379/sonic_generations/scores/city_escape/modern
19
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: theultimategamer95
« on: October 08, 2012, 03:11:24 pm »
Please provide proof of the following stats. A screenshot of the stat screen will suffice:
Sonic 4: Episode 2
- Sylvania Castle 1 Times, Super Sonic (0:42:19)
- Sky Fortress 1 Times (4:51:16)
- Sky Fortress Boss Times, Super Sonic (1:06:37)
- Death Egg mk.II Boss Times, Sonic (2:18:63)
- Sylvania Castle Boss Scores (116,316)
- Special Stage 5 Scores (120,475)
Sonic Adventure 2
- Pumpkin Hill 4 Rings (153)
Sonic 06
- Dusty Desert Shadow Rings (210)
- Solaris Rings (49)
Mind that I'm asking for proof for these specific stats. A video of a better stat than what you submitted, for example, won't count as proof. Thanks.
edit: Situation was dealt with privately, tug95's stats were nuked for several reasons.
Sonic 4: Episode 2
- Sylvania Castle 1 Times, Super Sonic (0:42:19)
- Sky Fortress 1 Times (4:51:16)
- Sky Fortress Boss Times, Super Sonic (1:06:37)
- Death Egg mk.II Boss Times, Sonic (2:18:63)
- Sylvania Castle Boss Scores (116,316)
- Special Stage 5 Scores (120,475)
Sonic Adventure 2
- Pumpkin Hill 4 Rings (153)
Sonic 06
- Dusty Desert Shadow Rings (210)
- Solaris Rings (49)
Mind that I'm asking for proof for these specific stats. A video of a better stat than what you submitted, for example, won't count as proof. Thanks.
edit: Situation was dealt with privately, tug95's stats were nuked for several reasons.
20
News and Updates / Sonic Adventure 2: Race Night
« on: October 05, 2012, 03:26:26 pm »
This week Sonic Adventure 2 was rereleased on the 360 and PS3, with a PC version coming "in the coming months". Regardless, to celebrate, we're racing SA2 tomorrow for Race Night!
The time is Saturday, October 6 at 5:00PM EDT. To join, get on IRC, connect to irc.speeddemosarchive.com, and join #speedrunslive at some point before 5. Keep in mind 5 is when the race will -start-! If you want to participate, make sure you get here early. If you are not in the race and ready by 5, you will be removed from the race, so don't be late. Worried about sucking? Don't worry, most of us suck too.
Even though we're celebrating the rerelease, any version of the game will be allowed. We'll be racing through the Hero Story. Use a new, fresh file.
Hope to see you there, it's sure to be a good time!
By the way, if you want to pick up the 360 version of SA2, due to an issue with the Marketplace you can't get the game from the 360 dashboard. Instead you'll want to get it from xbox.com. Oh, also, NiGHTS came out too, and has the same issue; xbox.com link here.
The time is Saturday, October 6 at 5:00PM EDT. To join, get on IRC, connect to irc.speeddemosarchive.com, and join #speedrunslive at some point before 5. Keep in mind 5 is when the race will -start-! If you want to participate, make sure you get here early. If you are not in the race and ready by 5, you will be removed from the race, so don't be late. Worried about sucking? Don't worry, most of us suck too.
Even though we're celebrating the rerelease, any version of the game will be allowed. We'll be racing through the Hero Story. Use a new, fresh file.
Hope to see you there, it's sure to be a good time!
By the way, if you want to pick up the 360 version of SA2, due to an issue with the Marketplace you can't get the game from the 360 dashboard. Instead you'll want to get it from xbox.com. Oh, also, NiGHTS came out too, and has the same issue; xbox.com link here.
21
News and Updates / The Return of TSC Race Night!
« on: September 13, 2012, 07:34:50 am »
TSC Race Night is back! This weekend, we'll be racing through the classic Sonic 3 & Knuckles. Sound interesting? Read on for details!
The race will be held Saturday, September 15 at 5:00pm EDT. Anyone can participate! You'll need an IRC client. Connect to irc.speeddemosarchive.com and join #speedrunslive at some point before 5, and then wait for us to begin.
But that's not all. SpinDashMaster is introducing a ranking system for TSC races and other live competition that he calls TSC Race Night 24/7.
Did you do really awesome in a race and you want to brag to everyone about how epic you are? Then this is for you! TRN247 will provide you with signature images to be used on forums to show off your race prowess. Mind this isn't limited to Race Night, you can race with others or even compete over netplay anytime you want; hence the 24/7 part. Race Night will be worth double points, however, so you'll want to join this anyway. Check these threads for more info on 24/7:
Basics of TRN247
TSC Race Night 1 signups
Remember: This Saturday at 5PM. Be there. Or else we'll sic the Beast on you.
edit: Race Night is over. Click here for results.
The race will be held Saturday, September 15 at 5:00pm EDT. Anyone can participate! You'll need an IRC client. Connect to irc.speeddemosarchive.com and join #speedrunslive at some point before 5, and then wait for us to begin.
But that's not all. SpinDashMaster is introducing a ranking system for TSC races and other live competition that he calls TSC Race Night 24/7.
Did you do really awesome in a race and you want to brag to everyone about how epic you are? Then this is for you! TRN247 will provide you with signature images to be used on forums to show off your race prowess. Mind this isn't limited to Race Night, you can race with others or even compete over netplay anytime you want; hence the 24/7 part. Race Night will be worth double points, however, so you'll want to join this anyway. Check these threads for more info on 24/7:
Basics of TRN247
TSC Race Night 1 signups
Remember: This Saturday at 5PM. Be there. Or else we'll sic the Beast on you.
edit: Race Night is over. Click here for results.
22
Wikkity! / PART 1 TERRAN VS ZERG
« on: August 28, 2012, 05:54:30 pm »
PART 1 TERRAN VS ZERG
Charper1
i was stading in the war room my name is Andrew. Alexei. I said. What up. There is a new overmaid. Are you should? Yes L.t. Andrew. would the protoss help? no. can't we
nuke the overmaid? I said. The protoss made new sheld. What! (the comptor:) the base is under attack. Who attack.the attack is zerg. This is Mengsk i'll you help if you woker for me. Hmmm. Ok. Alexei are going argee? (The comptor) the zerg coming.
Fine. I'll argee.UpLoad the Dropship. Ok the plan is we have to keep the zerg busson
for Mengsk man. Then his man will destroy the henver. Its landing get ready. A Marine holy shit! Get ready fire! The tanks fired. Blood fly where . Move move. Sunken colonys! A firebat yailed! Ahh. L.t. Andrew how we know Mengsk coming?
He be in a battlecruser and flet of warth and battlecruser! There is Mengsk. The henver
is destroy. Mengsk tell me more about the sheld?i said. Some had they have shelds that undestuy but a sheld batter can shut down the shelds . Hmm yut. You and a team of ghost
i wanada you get in the bass and destroy the sheldsbatter. I can help. Someone said.
saw youself. General Duke. How you help? Alexei damd. I know what the protoss bass
look like because i was pow in the bass.
Charper2
there is thee enter but getting in is the hard part its because the Photon Cannons Very
heavy armor you really can't destroy becues the alem would go off and we'll you die.
(The compton) a tassom recon this is dugon give up and join the UED. Haaa.
You have like no men. Alexei said. We shauld attack you . Duke said. Whats the point? Ask Mengsk. All lungh. Fine i sauld attack you the 'terran donom' load the ships Lt.Andrew go with Alexei and see the UED. Said Mengsk
Charper3
you going have 50 Battlecruiser and 100 marine and 100 siege tanks. Said Duke.
In the dropship
how longer get there? A marine said. Not far. Hey what is the moky its char what he tack
us. atacy not.Duke said. What you mean? Atacy the UED was on earth. But then going attack the Zerg. Mengsk Said. We beatter go. A marine said. Why. I said. We be outnumber. No if we let The UED destroy the protoss base them we rast are men and destroy the Zerg. Good plan Alexei.
Charper3
thanks andrew. Fist get on Char.
On char
the protoss base is destroy now the sheld is down for the overmaid go attack!
the shots of the tanks and the seams of marines. Sand the the ghost. Ghost report. Nurk the hive boom! ahhhhhhhhh!. Its black. Wake up Lt. We won. Now sind a dropship.
The end for now
By Andrew
Charper1
i was stading in the war room my name is Andrew. Alexei. I said. What up. There is a new overmaid. Are you should? Yes L.t. Andrew. would the protoss help? no. can't we
nuke the overmaid? I said. The protoss made new sheld. What! (the comptor:) the base is under attack. Who attack.the attack is zerg. This is Mengsk i'll you help if you woker for me. Hmmm. Ok. Alexei are going argee? (The comptor) the zerg coming.
Fine. I'll argee.UpLoad the Dropship. Ok the plan is we have to keep the zerg busson
for Mengsk man. Then his man will destroy the henver. Its landing get ready. A Marine holy shit! Get ready fire! The tanks fired. Blood fly where . Move move. Sunken colonys! A firebat yailed! Ahh. L.t. Andrew how we know Mengsk coming?
He be in a battlecruser and flet of warth and battlecruser! There is Mengsk. The henver
is destroy. Mengsk tell me more about the sheld?i said. Some had they have shelds that undestuy but a sheld batter can shut down the shelds . Hmm yut. You and a team of ghost
i wanada you get in the bass and destroy the sheldsbatter. I can help. Someone said.
saw youself. General Duke. How you help? Alexei damd. I know what the protoss bass
look like because i was pow in the bass.
Charper2
there is thee enter but getting in is the hard part its because the Photon Cannons Very
heavy armor you really can't destroy becues the alem would go off and we'll you die.
(The compton) a tassom recon this is dugon give up and join the UED. Haaa.
You have like no men. Alexei said. We shauld attack you . Duke said. Whats the point? Ask Mengsk. All lungh. Fine i sauld attack you the 'terran donom' load the ships Lt.Andrew go with Alexei and see the UED. Said Mengsk
Charper3
you going have 50 Battlecruiser and 100 marine and 100 siege tanks. Said Duke.
In the dropship
how longer get there? A marine said. Not far. Hey what is the moky its char what he tack
us. atacy not.Duke said. What you mean? Atacy the UED was on earth. But then going attack the Zerg. Mengsk Said. We beatter go. A marine said. Why. I said. We be outnumber. No if we let The UED destroy the protoss base them we rast are men and destroy the Zerg. Good plan Alexei.
Charper3
thanks andrew. Fist get on Char.
On char
the protoss base is destroy now the sheld is down for the overmaid go attack!
the shots of the tanks and the seams of marines. Sand the the ghost. Ghost report. Nurk the hive boom! ahhhhhhhhh!. Its black. Wake up Lt. We won. Now sind a dropship.
The end for now
By Andrew
23
Rules Revisions / Unbanning Team Blast Glitch
« on: August 04, 2012, 04:10:54 pm »
I propose we unban the Team Blast Glitch.
The subject has come up several times in IRC lately and no one seems to know why it's banned outside Team Dark times. In any case, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to keep this rule around. Any objections?
The subject has come up several times in IRC lately and no one seems to know why it's banned outside Team Dark times. In any case, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to keep this rule around. Any objections?
24
Leaderboard Disputes / ATTN: spearseter
« on: April 26, 2010, 08:19:06 pm »
A few of your stats have been called into question, and proof is requested for the following Sonic Unleashed 360-PS3 Rings stats.
Windmill Isle 3 (Day) - 146
Savannah Citadel 1 (Day) - 521
Cool Edge 1 (Day) - 732
Dragon Road 2 (Day) - 188
Rooftop Run 1 (Day) - 1340
Please provide a video, a screenshot of the results screen showing the exact stat you've submitted under ring bonus, or an explanation of the strategy that you used to obtain these stats that demonstrates that you have sufficient knowledge to have actually been able to achieve them.
Further, proof is requested of any of your Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity Times, preferably as many as possible; you will need to prove the exact times you've submitted.
Windmill Isle 3 (Day) - 146
Savannah Citadel 1 (Day) - 521
Cool Edge 1 (Day) - 732
Dragon Road 2 (Day) - 188
Rooftop Run 1 (Day) - 1340
Please provide a video, a screenshot of the results screen showing the exact stat you've submitted under ring bonus, or an explanation of the strategy that you used to obtain these stats that demonstrates that you have sufficient knowledge to have actually been able to achieve them.
Further, proof is requested of any of your Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity Times, preferably as many as possible; you will need to prove the exact times you've submitted.
25
Competition Central / Most insane Skyscraper Scamper 1 run ever
« on: May 05, 2009, 02:03:14 pm »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fD-dHpGKSk&feature=channel_page
SS1 in 1:41:41 with some crazy stunts. This has got to be by far the best su360 run I've ever seen. :O Seriously, if you haven't seen this, you need to. Now.
too bad he doesn't have a TSC account; someone needs to translate TSC to japanese. :/
SS1 in 1:41:41 with some crazy stunts. This has got to be by far the best su360 run I've ever seen. :O Seriously, if you haven't seen this, you need to. Now.
too bad he doesn't have a TSC account; someone needs to translate TSC to japanese. :/
26
Competition Central / SU360 patch fixes Rooftop Run 2/Cool Edge 2 :(
« on: March 18, 2009, 02:59:39 pm »
Last night I noticed the patch that was released last week before the DLC came out affects competition in RR2 and CE2; specifically, it removes the lap-skipping shortcuts in those levels. In Rooftop Run 2 an invisible wall appears after the first lap preventing you from backtracking, and in Cool Edge 2 you can't homing attack up the icicle anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8gfP4axqo
The question now is what we do about it, since obviously the times on the charts right now aren't possible if you have the latest patch... patches CAN be removed, so it's just a matter of whether we decide to allow people to do that (which if we don't disallows anyone without XBL from competing in those levels, or a PS3 for that matter since evidently the PS3's never getting the patch/dlc. :P Although it was the same case with Sonic 06's DLC).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye8gfP4axqo
The question now is what we do about it, since obviously the times on the charts right now aren't possible if you have the latest patch... patches CAN be removed, so it's just a matter of whether we decide to allow people to do that (which if we don't disallows anyone without XBL from competing in those levels, or a PS3 for that matter since evidently the PS3's never getting the patch/dlc. :P Although it was the same case with Sonic 06's DLC).
27
Competition Central / Sonic and the Black Knight competition (charts decided)
« on: March 05, 2009, 02:12:41 am »
Anyone else got the game? It's pretty short, I just got done finishing all the missions. It might be a bit difficult to figure out how competition in this game will work; as the front page topic said, the in-game leaderboards only cover certain levels and even then they track scores and not times. Time and scores are both saved; score shows when you highlight the level and is shown on the results screen at the end. Time sometimes shows up on the results screen, but not on the menu; to see your best time you need to load the level and check the HUD, where your best time will be shown above the timer. Scores seem to be a lot like SSR's, except now bonuses actually show up on-screen so we'll know what we're getting points for and hopefully won't have as many issues as SSR's score competition did.
Times have one major issue though, that being that in some levels the game won't save your best time sometimes. I'm pretty sure it's related to whether you hurt townspeople, which is something you could easily do by accident, particularly in Misty Lake where using Soul Surge destroys the cardboard-cutout "civilians". Some of the later levels don't have any, so hopefully there's no issue there. To supplement this, in some levels, the time isn't displayed on the results screen. From what I've seen, the longer levels don't show your time at the end, while the shorter missions do. The timer disappears the frame it stops counting, so there's no time to check your time real quick before the level ends.
As far as a rings/ring chains division, ring chains are back, but not saved in-game like they were in SSR. Just plain rings might work, but some if not all (non-ring chain) levels cap at 100 (according to DsS; I never really paid attention to my ring count). So we might not have any form of ring competition in SBK.
One other potential issue is the way missions are laid out in the menu; they aren't neat one-by-one like in SSR, but rather there's a big circle with a bunch of smaller yellow circles scattered around them (I think they're supposed to be fairies) that each correspond to missions, so we probably won't be able to do Mission 1, Mission 2 etc charts like we did with SSR. Also another thing - divisions. Shadow, Knuckles, and Blaze (or Lancelot, Gawain, and Percival) are all playable, but only in a few levels (Shrouded Forest, Great Megalith, Knight's Passage, The Cauldron, and Dragon's Lair). They each have different attacks and fighting styles, but I don't know if it's enough to warrant having separate divisions for each character.
(EDIT: Oh also, there are items that give you various abilities sort of like SSR's skills; haven't seen anything too useful yet, things like resistance to freezing/paralyzing/etc, but there are some that give you extra score bonuses. At the end of each level you get a bunch of items at random and a set of ID points; you use the ID points to find out what the items are. They won't always be new. Might need to look into what all of these do.)
Anyway, here's the full mission listing, just for the sake of having one:
So there's 87 missions unless I counted wrong (probably). Tried to put the levels in the order you unlock them, challenges in no particular order. Not all of these are suited for time competition (total rampage/ultimate challenge come to mind; instead of a goal they're timed, and the mission ends whenever time runs out or you get hit/die). If we can figure something out for the times-not-saving issue (either a way to make it consistently save or a rule), then times should be good to go; scores likely are either way, but just having scores would be lame. Bosses should be fine.
Times have one major issue though, that being that in some levels the game won't save your best time sometimes. I'm pretty sure it's related to whether you hurt townspeople, which is something you could easily do by accident, particularly in Misty Lake where using Soul Surge destroys the cardboard-cutout "civilians". Some of the later levels don't have any, so hopefully there's no issue there. To supplement this, in some levels, the time isn't displayed on the results screen. From what I've seen, the longer levels don't show your time at the end, while the shorter missions do. The timer disappears the frame it stops counting, so there's no time to check your time real quick before the level ends.
As far as a rings/ring chains division, ring chains are back, but not saved in-game like they were in SSR. Just plain rings might work, but some if not all (non-ring chain) levels cap at 100 (according to DsS; I never really paid attention to my ring count). So we might not have any form of ring competition in SBK.
One other potential issue is the way missions are laid out in the menu; they aren't neat one-by-one like in SSR, but rather there's a big circle with a bunch of smaller yellow circles scattered around them (I think they're supposed to be fairies) that each correspond to missions, so we probably won't be able to do Mission 1, Mission 2 etc charts like we did with SSR. Also another thing - divisions. Shadow, Knuckles, and Blaze (or Lancelot, Gawain, and Percival) are all playable, but only in a few levels (Shrouded Forest, Great Megalith, Knight's Passage, The Cauldron, and Dragon's Lair). They each have different attacks and fighting styles, but I don't know if it's enough to warrant having separate divisions for each character.
(EDIT: Oh also, there are items that give you various abilities sort of like SSR's skills; haven't seen anything too useful yet, things like resistance to freezing/paralyzing/etc, but there are some that give you extra score bonuses. At the end of each level you get a bunch of items at random and a set of ID points; you use the ID points to find out what the items are. They won't always be new. Might need to look into what all of these do.)
Anyway, here's the full mission listing, just for the sake of having one:
Quote
Misty Lake
-Special Challenge: Reach the Misty Lake
-Special Challenge: Retrieve the sacred sword
-Special Challenge: Wield the sacred sword
-Go for the Goal: Reach the goal
-Pass Through the Gate: Reach the goal in time
-Mastery Stage: Only allowed 8 sword swings
-Defeat the Boss: King Arthur
Camelot Castle
-Special Challenge: Reach the blacksmith's shop
-Special Challenge: Rescue the townspeople
-Special Challenge: Finish using Soul Surge on the ground
-Special Challenge: Finish using Soul Surge in the air
-Special Challenge: Put out 10 fires
-Go for the Goal: Reach the goal
-Ring-Giver: Give the townspeople 80 rings
-Rush Hour: Reach the goal without running into anyone
-Legacy: Reach the goal
Deep Woods
-Special Challenge: Reach the Lady of the Lake
-Go for the Goal: Reach the goal
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Ring-Giver: Give the townspeople 80 Rings
-Rampage: Defeat 50 enemies
-Total Rampage: Defeat as many enemies as possible
-Ultimate Challenge: Defeat enemies and take no damage
-Defeat the Boss: Sir Lancelot
-Defeat the Boss: Lancelot Returns
Titanic Plain
-Go for the Goal: Reach the goal
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Special Challenge: Open all the locks
-Perfect Hit Tutorial
-Rampage: Defeat 60 enemies
-Ring-Giver: Give the townspeople 100 Rings
-Total Rampage: Defeat as many enemies as possible
-Perfect Challenge: Make it through taking no damage
-Defeat the Boss: Sir Gawain
Crystal Cave
-Special challenge: Rescue the townspeople
-Go for the Goal: Reach the goal
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Pass Through the Gate: Reach the goal in time
-Collect Rings: Collect 100 Rings
-Chain of Rings: Collect 100 Ring chains
-Rampage: Defeat 50 enemies
-Rush Hour: Reach the goal without running into anyone
Molten Mine
-Go for the Goal: Reach the goal
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Grind Challenge: Reach the goal without falling
-Pass Through the Gate: Reach the goal in time
-Beat the Clock: Reach the goal before time runs out
-Ring-Giver: Give the townspeople 20 Rings
-Total Rampage: Defeat as many enemies as possible
-Ultimate Challenge: Defeat enemies and take no damage
-Defeat the Boss: Sir Percival
Faraway Avalon
-Defeat the Boss: King Arthur
-Chain of Rings: Collect 350 Ring chains
-Total Rampage: Defeat as many enemies as possible
-Ultimate Challenge: Defeat enemies and take no damage
Knight's Passage
-Beat the Clock: Reach the goal before time runs out
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Hide and Seek: Find 3 Hidden Fairies
-Special Challenge: Defeat 10 Will 'o Wisps
-Perfect Challenge: Make it through taking no damage
Shrouded Forest
-Beat the Clock: Reach the goal before time runs out
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Mastery Stage: Only allowed 11 sword swings
-Chain of Enemies: Defeat 20 enemies in a row
-Hide and Seek: Find 5 Hidden Fairies
-Special Challenge: Don't touch the ground
Great Megalith
-Beat the Clock: Reach the goal before time runs out
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Hide and Seek: Find 10 Hidden Fairies
-Diehard Challenge: Clear without being defeated
-Chain of Enemies: Defeat 50 enemies in a row
-Special Challenge: Destroy 12 columns
The Cauldron
-Beat the Clock: Reach the goal before time runs out.
-Special Challenge: Escape the Cauldron
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Hide and Seek: Find 7 Hidden Fairies
-Mastery Stage: Only allowed 10 sword swings
-Rampage: Defeat 12 enemies
Dragon's Lair
-Beat the Clock: Reach the goal before time runs out
-Special Challenge: Dragon Slayer
-Legacy: Reach the goal
-Collect Rings: Collect 100 Rings
-Chain of Rings: Collect 100 Ring Chains
-Rampage: Defeat 12 enemies
-Total Rampage: Defeat as many enemies as possible
-Ultimate Challenge: Defeat enemies and take no damage
Dark Hollow
-Defeat the Boss: The Dark Queen
So there's 87 missions unless I counted wrong (probably). Tried to put the levels in the order you unlock them, challenges in no particular order. Not all of these are suited for time competition (total rampage/ultimate challenge come to mind; instead of a goal they're timed, and the mission ends whenever time runs out or you get hit/die). If we can figure something out for the times-not-saving issue (either a way to make it consistently save or a rule), then times should be good to go; scores likely are either way, but just having scores would be lame. Bosses should be fine.
28
General Sonic / Sonic 06 DLC
« on: November 18, 2008, 07:55:12 pm »
Thought I'd make a thread regarding the DLC in Sonic 06. The DLC for the game includes Very Hard missions, Team Attack Amigo, and Boss Attack for each character. The issue is that TAA and BA are only available on the 360 version, leaving anyone with a PS3 unable to submit any stats in those categories. There's precedence for the removal of the charts in S3DB, I think; either way something should be done about it, as it's ~70 points. I'd rather see the offending charts moved to a Freestyle-like division, but removal is also an option if that can't be done. :(
in b4 lolsonic06
in b4 lolsonic06
29
Leaderboard Disputes / Sonic 06 BS stats
« on: January 24, 2008, 07:26:37 am »
http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_the_hedgehog/rings/radical_train/silver
I've been through the stage several times and each time got 142 rings. I'm sure I'm not even missing one ring, let alone 163.
While we're at it:
http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_the_hedgehog/scores/mission_2/shadow
This mission just involves hitting boxes, and there's definitely no way to get 10,000 extra points.
I've been through the stage several times and each time got 142 rings. I'm sure I'm not even missing one ring, let alone 163.
While we're at it:
http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_the_hedgehog/scores/mission_2/shadow
This mission just involves hitting boxes, and there's definitely no way to get 10,000 extra points.
30
Competition Central / New Sonic Heroes glitch?
« on: November 07, 2007, 08:46:30 pm »
I haven't been keeping up with most Sonic stuff at all, so I'm sorry if this is old... I looked around a bit on the site and didn't see anything about this though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--CqbgcwaT0
Basically allows you to clip through objects - use Rocket Accel then switch to flight formation right before hitting the target. So far I know this works on doors in Hang Castle and Mystic Mansion (except the one you run through at the beginning... doesn't seem to work on that one) and barriers in Egg Fleet; I haven't tested anywhere else and I haven't tried with any teams other than Team Sonic. You can also glitch through the lasers in Lost Jungle doing something similar to this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--CqbgcwaT0
Basically allows you to clip through objects - use Rocket Accel then switch to flight formation right before hitting the target. So far I know this works on doors in Hang Castle and Mystic Mansion (except the one you run through at the beginning... doesn't seem to work on that one) and barriers in Egg Fleet; I haven't tested anywhere else and I haven't tried with any teams other than Team Sonic. You can also glitch through the lasers in Lost Jungle doing something similar to this.
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