The Sonic Center
Sonic Central => Leaderboard Disputes => Topic started by: Rolken on January 01, 2009, 06:05:00 pm
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Your statistics have been called into question, specifically SA2 times. You will need to supply some form of proof for some stats, for example some of the following, after which your submission privileges will be restored:
City Escape 2
Mission Street 3
Pyramid Cave 1/4
Thanks.
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Alrighty..! I actually can't believe I got called into question on my SA2:B times, where I don't have a single record, and those times you listed aren't even in the top10! <_<
Anyway, I have two separate game files, and one got unfortunately deleted <_< (zomg BSer!) That's why I can't provide you with my CE2 time...
Also my MS3 time is off by like a second. (I'm guessing because I had it on my other file as well.)
But other than that, I can show you pics of my PC1/4 (I think you meant 5 there <_<)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01073.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01076.jpg
Also my MS3 time:
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01072.jpg
As I said, it's off by a bit, but I'm not BSing for a second, especially when it wouldn't even save me some points <_<
You can also check SA2:B's vid section and find my best-ranked stat, my Final Rush mission 1 vid. I know it's super bad quality, but I can't offer you anything more.
EDIT: lol just noticed my PC1 time is better than the one I have submitted <_<
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Your PC5 and MS3 pictures are the same.
Edit: oh ok. But now I ask how you confused some of these?
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Your PC5 and MS3 pictures are the same.
Just noticed, thanks. Edited it now.
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The MS3 photo shows 1:41:50. Your MS3 submission says 1:40:21.
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The MS3 photo shows 1:41:50. Your MS3 submission says 1:40:21.
Can't you read the text?
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All of your stats are different from the photos provided. This does not inspire confidence. Are you saying all of them are on some other save file?
How about...
Aquatic Mine 1
Iron Gate 2
Radical Highway 3
Missions 1 and 4 are effectively the same, that's what I meant by 1/4.
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If it was off, then why did you submit it?
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I've heard people claim that they "accidentally" deleted their save files before. I can't see how anyone could "accidentally" do that. You'd have to consciously select "Delete", then select "Yes" in the "WARNING YOU ARE ABOUT TO DELETE THE FILE" prompt.
Perhaps these are the same people who "accidentally" manage to get infected by spyware, even though they're using Firefox.
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I've heard people claim that they "accidentally" deleted their save files before. I can't see how anyone could "accidentally" do that. You'd have to consciously select "Delete", then select "Yes" in the "WARNING YOU ARE ABOUT TO DELETE THE FILE" prompt.
Save file corruption?
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He didn't say "accidentally"
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Deliberately deleting it and then posting the stats is even more lol. <_<
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OK, as stated in chat, due to the save file issue, the requested stats have been changed to the last four submitted times, being
Mission Street 2
Cosmic Wall 2
Mad Space 5
Sky Rail 2
and the second set I posted earlier can be disregarded.
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I've heard people claim that they "accidentally" deleted their save files before. I can't see how anyone could "accidentally" do that. You'd have to consciously select "Delete", then select "Yes" in the "WARNING YOU ARE ABOUT TO DELETE THE FILE" prompt.
Perhaps these are the same people who "accidentally" manage to get infected by spyware, even though they're using Firefox.
've lost two save files, one due to accidental deletion and the other to faulty memory card.
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I've lost three save files.
All for Sonic Heroes./me headdesks violently
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I've lost everything on my GCN memory card twice >_>.
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Can we keep this relevant, please? Where's PoT's proofs?
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I only lost my Mario Party 6 data on my memory card because my sister actually put the memory card in at the wrong time and I never lost anything else on my memory cards.
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Well, there was a discussion in chat, and honestly I don't remember what went on, but I restored his submission capabilities. Maybe someone else who was there can fill in details <_<
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Basically, PoT said he deleted his other file to save space and didn't realize there were records on it until later. He also said that he couldn't prove some of his more recent times because he submitted them from a piece of paper where he wrote down some of his best times, and he said he had some times on his undeleted file but not others. I don't remember exactly what led up to it but sooner or later Rolken unbanned him saying he was probably not bsing but just being overly sloppy.
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OK, well, the pile of circumstantial evidence is growing too high to ignore. In the last turn of events, he was requested to provide video of his times but his TV was mysteriously turned to maximum brightness and the remote was lost so it couldn't be altered and the text was illegible. Yeah, OK. And now I'm informed that he was actually banned once before as finalrush7 and reregistered. He's clearly a capable player, but I am not confident that he can be trusted, so his stats are suspended until he can work out his myriad of problems and get proof.
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Damn, I'm sick of this. And I'm sick of picture taking. <_<
Just remind me of what I submitted during the last few days(because I'm banned and can't see it <___<) and I'll get you your picture proof. Or vid proof of a level.
IIRC it was SO1235, HB1235, EE1, ....SS1D, JJ1D, DR2D.
<_< that's a lot....
You'll have it, today or tomorrow.
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FR7 is among the 10 to 20% of completely honest, good-natured people left in the world, which would be obvious to anyone that knows him. I had a personal 200 post relay with him so I would sure know!
Having those qualities is a much better proof standard than pictures and videos could ever be, so you should leave him alone once and for all. He would never submit a fake time, I can give you a guarantee of that, I have full faith in his honesty video proof or not.
So what if he he accidentally submitted a fake decimal time, when I first got here I made a mistake too, I got 1:36.x on a level but I forgot what the decimal was and the time did not save for some reason, but I knew I got 1:36 so I just did 1:36.99 to be fair. you guys addressed it to me and I played the level again and submitted a better time on which I remembered the decimal and have had no problems since. So stop messing with his stats and just have him correct his mistakes!
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I would like to redirect you, then, to this thread:http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3663.0
POT, with apparent ignorance of videos, manages to pull off a dreamcast only glitch (which is hardly intuitive), when his youtube suggest he owns SA2:B for the gamecube. He never elaborated on his strategy to get such a low time when prompted.
It's this sort of evasion of proof that makes him unreliable and untrustworthy.
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Hey Paragod! Thanks for that!
Who'd have thought that your 500th post would be in a LD about me, lol.
Btw, did you see my absolutely awesome new FR time? It's only 0:00:13 away from yours! And the best thing is, I can get a 2:08 pretty much at least once a day, leaving much more room for improvement than earlier.
And even if I get the record one day without any new tricks, I will make sure you will play that level again, even if that means that I will have to play that level so long until I find a new time saver and we get to compete again.
I would like to redirect you, then, to this thread:http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=3663.0
POT, with apparent ignorance of videos, manages to pull off a dreamcast only glitch (which is hardly intuitive), when his youtube suggest he owns SA2:B for the gamecube. He never elaborated on his strategy to get such a low time when prompted.
Yes, I 've known that and I'm very sorry, I mistook that level for Eggman's Lost Colony.
And as you would probably know, I didn't submit any of these times anyways. I only submitted a EE1 time yesterday, and that was 3:09:xx IIRC I noticed that I mistook it jsut after posting it, but at that time I didn't know that it's possible to edit the massages, and I somehow forgot to delete the whole topic.
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Here we go: http://rapidshare.com/files/186572470/Neuer_Ordner.rar.html
It can only be DL'd 10 times apparently.. <_<
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Just remind me of what I submitted during the last few days(because I'm banned and can't see it <___<) and I'll get you your picture proof. Or vid proof of a level.
Take the time machine to 1/19/09 and hit up your profile.
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Take the time machine to 1/19/09 and hit up your profile.
For whatever reason, it only shows me my SU360 new stats, but each stat shows up twice. Anyway, I think I've got all the stats on pictures that I submitted within the past few days.
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I initially asked for some proof because of some sketchy ring stats - in SU360 there were plenty of instances where he submitted a non-max stat that tied with the current record, or submitted a stat where FKE or someone else posted a comment saying that was max (when it wasn't). Examples off the top of my head: Windmill Isle 2 Day, Rooftop Run 1 Night, Cool Edge 1 Night, Arid Sands 1 Night (happened twice here), and Jungle Joyride 2 Day (also happened twice here). Dragon Road 1 Day also had an issue because he posted an 810, where according to FKE 806 is max unless you abuse a glitch to get the last 42.
As far as asking for proof, it took 30 minutes to get him to finally agree to make a video, with crap excuses like it not being fun, taking too long (when he was willing to make a video of any level which would've taken longer), etc... and when he finally does there's a major quality issue like Rolken said. The video he finally ended up making is here (http://files.filefront.com/MOV01091MP4/;13036452;/fileinfo.html). Now, with some settings changes it's possible to somewhat make out the numbers despite the horrible quality. Rolk thought that these stats looked illegitimate (without checking every stat in the video):
-Windmill Isle 3 Day Time
-Egg Beetle
-Savannah Citadel 2 Day Score
-Cool Edge 1 Score
Also the fact that tons of his SA2 stats got caught by the BS detector earlier this month (which he coincidentally couldn't prove), and that he's already been banned for having some iffy SA2 stats (and I remember he had some impossible Sonic 06 ring stats as well, like 536 on Aquatic Base when 533 is max, 106 on Dusty Desert Silver when 105 is max, etc.) I have no doubt you've submitted some great legit stats, but it looks a lot like plenty of them aren't, and we can't just ignore those. If you want to prove that without a doubt every stat you've submitted is real, then go for it, but until then there's too much evidence against you to ignore.
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I initially asked for some proof because of some sketchy ring stats - in SU360 there were plenty of instances where he submitted a non-max stat that tied with the current record, or submitted a stat where FKE or someone else posted a comment saying that was max (when it wasn't). Examples off the top of my head: Windmill Isle 2 Day, Rooftop Run 1 Night, Cool Edge 1 Night, Arid Sands 1 Night (happened twice here), and Jungle Joyride 2 Day (also happened twice here). Dragon Road 1 Day also had an issue because he posted an 810, where according to FKE 806 is max unless you abuse a glitch to get the last 42.
Why would I go into a level (RA) expecting to get more rings than someone who said that his stat was max? Let's say person X says 100 rings is max in level Y. Now I play it, and as soon as I get said 100 rings, I just go and complete the level. Not to mention the newly found rings later were pretty well hidden anyways(easy to oversee). That's normal instinct.
Not to mention that it didn't happen twice on AR1N and JJ2D
As far as asking for proof, it took 30 minutes to get him to finally agree to make a video, with crap excuses like it not being fun, taking too long (when he was willing to make a video of any level which would've taken longer), etc... and when he finally does there's a major quality issue like Rolken said. The video he finally ended up making is here. Now, with some settings changes it's possible to somewhat make out the numbers despite the horrible quality. Rolk thought that these stats looked illegitimate (without checking every stat in the video):
Well I'm sorry for having a bad camera <_< And the accusation of intentionally setting max brightness on the TV is BS, since I can't even do that without a remote.
Also the fact that tons of his SA2 stats got caught by the BS detector earlier this month (which he coincidentally couldn't prove)
Alright, let's take a look here, and compare me and brian_pso. We both have one video to back up the first record we got (he: green forest, I: Final rush). Now we both submit red stats(he also submitted some orange ones, but I do not since I'm not submitting anything that isn't red), and I get caught be the BS detector while he doesn't. Now, how can this be, considering his stats are usually slitghly better than mine? Is it because of the version differences? No, there's only a small amount of levels/missions where the DC/GC has a advantage. So what is it then??
And while it's true that I couldn't prove some of my stats due to losing a save file and getting the off of some old papers, I could prove the other ones. After being told that I am sloppy, I didn't even submit any of the times I found on papers later on. The last 15 or so stats I submitted in SA2:B and SU360 can be found above in picture form
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Why would I go into a level (RA) expecting to get more rings than someone who said that his stat was max? Let's say person X says 100 rings is max in level Y. Now I play it, and as soon as I get said 100 rings, I just go and complete the level. Not to mention the newly found rings later were pretty well hidden anyways(easy to oversee). That's normal instinct.
Not to mention that it didn't happen twice on AR1N and JJ2D
It did - I posted 443 and you tied me, someone else (Flying Fox I think) posted 491 and you tied her, then she gets 501 and you tie that. JJ2D, fke gets 148, you tie it, I get 156, you tie me, and now Flying Fox has 166. Though I'll admit a lot of AS1N's rings are pretty hidden so it's forgivable there. I don't know where in RR1N you'd miss three rings, though. There's still the DR1D issue.
Try posting some pictures of the stats I mentioned in the last post.
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Now we both submit red stats(he also submitted some orange ones, but I do not since I'm not submitting anything that isn't red), and I get caught be the BS detector while he doesn't. Now, how can this be, considering his stats are usually slitghly better than mine?
Um.
Just because his stats are better than yours does not make your stats immune to being bs detected. And as they WERE bs detected and your almost complete failure to provide proof and myriad of excuses I am inclined to think they ARE bs.
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Well, I was going to implement a probation system under which you can submit stats with proof, but frankly I don't know when I'll get around to that. So instead I've lifted the ban and you can submit stats so long as you link something in the comment.
This argument yall are having isn't going to go anywhere. As for the brightness BS remark... how does brightness get unintentionally set to max?
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Sure is cool that I'm unbanned again, but ALL MY STATS ARE GONE? And I can only submit them with proof???
Can't you just restore all the stats I had until now? (I'm sure you can, but if you want is the question <_<)
SA2:B has like 300+ submissions, and most of them were already submitted.... don't tell me I have to go and take over 200 pictures and then another 150 for SU360
I'd be at it FOR DAYS (taking them, transferring to PC with a shitty slow USB cable, and then uploading them ALL?) <_<
Can't we just agree that I get you proof for all the red stats(or records) I get? Seriously, I can't believe you don't think I have the needed skill to get stats in orange or lower....
About the birghtness, it is not the TV. It is my fucking cell phone camera. I can take pictures in very good quality, but it's not really meant for videos.
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It's not that we think you're skilled; it's that we think you are dishonest about what times you actually achieve with any given time committment. We aren't doubting that you're able to achieve red times; we're doubting that you actually do.
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But I just showed you all the red stats I submitted during the last few days (around 12 or so). And taking a picture for every single stat I submit is ridiculous, as I said, I'd be at it for days.
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A better option in this instance would be a time scroll. Take a video and cycle through all the levels, leaving a second or two for each one so we can see the time/score clearly. That way you're only uploading the one video rather than hundreds of pictures.
Relatedly, the question of whether or not your stats are false is entirely unrelated to skill: it is quite possible for a skilled player to post a few legitimate proofs and expect that they will stand for their legitimacy over time. However, as has been stated, you've been known to submit times that cannot be attained by any means (both on this account and a previous one), which leads the trained observer to believe that you are not actually getting all the times you claim.
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I would do that, but it doesn't work on SU360 because of the stupid brightness, and I doubt it would work on SA2:B (although I'll give it a try)
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I would do that, but it doesn't work on SU360 because of the stupid brightness, and I doubt it would work on SA2:B (although I'll give it a try)
you can turn down the brightness on SU360 >_>
before you click start game go to the Right/left you should see it
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OK, I see stats being submitted without evidence.
If you haven't connected the dots here, this runaround I have to go through with you every time directly feeds into me and everyone else having to be more skeptical of you. Every time I specifically ask for stats you can't provide, and every time there's a different reason for it. If you were able to just supply something, ANYTHING, when I ask for it, I wouldn't have to go all nazi on your posterior. I took your brightness troubles at face value and spent like an hour and a half fiddling with video settings to try to get some usable numbers out of that max brightness vid; it just wasn't possible. I am not swinging my big stick around indiscriminately.
There is a long history of players who are quite skilled but who get frustrated or bored with trying to max out every single level and so they submit stats that they -think- they could get, knowing that if asked for proof they could do the level for real and supply it. This is why I have been disappointed by your inability to provide the exact stats you submitted; we already know you can get red or silver stats if you have to, the doubt is whether you actually do.
I mean, we've got a line of excuses half a dozen deep here. Do you not see how that makes it difficult to trust you? I'm trying to be as open as I can. I hate revoking stats of top players.
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OK, and you know what I see? I see a guy who's apparently half blind. No offense, but
iIf you would have just BOTHERED to check the pictures that were in the winrar file, you would have seen that JJ1D and SS1D are not without evidence.
That, and it's somehow hurting my pride being asked for proof in Final Rush, but I guess I will have to get a picture there as well. -__-
Also, will there ever come the time where I will be able to submit anything without having a topic about that in LD the same day <_<
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Oh, OK. Yeah, I jumped to conclusions there. I admit my patience has gotten thinner. The winrar method is fine.
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Btw, what's up with the PMs? It tells me I have a new one, but it won't let me check it <_<
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01189.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01187.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01207.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01234.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01248.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01276.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01287.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01250.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01288.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01281.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01315.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01340.jpg
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg279/finalrush7/DSC01382.jpg
(^I can't submit that atm. I submit the stats, but they're not showing up even after an hour. Someone check that please?)
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I sent you a PM but reconsidered that there was no need and deleted it from the database. Apparently I didn't do a thorough job, lol.
Those shots are great, thanks.
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Yeah, it's still showing a PM and won't let me see it <_<
Anyway, this post^ will be updated with pics and stuff, so you know where to check..
Also, I won't keep these pics up forever on PB, I'll delete them after a days, but yeah, you're always on this site anyways.