The Sonic Center
The Lounge => Gaming and Grazing => Topic started by: Magnezone on July 13, 2008, 01:41:28 am
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WHOS IN
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I would be if I was good at anything involving making games :(
Also Sky's pic of BtB: http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c179/SkyLights1/BERTINcopy.jpg
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I can help with ideas and maybe music. :D
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I can maybe help with ideas but not much else. :(
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Also, it's amazing how quickly this flared up. It was only like 20 minutes ago that SJ said "also bertin is a bear" and he responded with "seriously."
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ok i can bs some sprites
STEFAN YOU DO SOME MUSIC
POST ANY AND ALL IDEAS THAT COME UP IN CHAT TO THIS SPACE
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Music I made at 1 am, so the quality is clearly lacking.
however, I think it is a good base for either bertin's invincibility theme or rage meter theme. You decide!
basic outline for bertin the bear, the game:
rings make you heavier/slower, allowing new areas to reach but slower movement.
bertin the bear gets mad. his rage meter fills. rage is like super form.
unique weight based puzzles!
special antiring boxes.
lots of tsc cameos.
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Thing is, there's too many ideas to post, and for that matter, it's kind of hard to tell which concepts are meant to be actually used or just a spur-of-the-moment joke.
...Actually, this entire thing is pretty much a spur-of-the-moment joke, but let's hope we can keep it alive longer than a few hours.
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One potential story... bertin wants to stop tsc from making a game about him. to do this he must defeat the members working on the project.
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I can do teh codingz
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I am currently working on the graphics for my hack (most balc- and foregrounds) and could edit them slightly for this project.
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I CAN GIVE MOTIVATIONAL SUPPORT AND ALSO LEVEL IDEAS MAYBE!?!
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[17:11] <PPA> Also I have an idea for the opening
[17:11] <PPA> Wait
[17:12] <RPG> Whenever S&A is on screen
[17:12] <RPG> You need a Barbie Girl midi playing.
[17:12] <PPA> SO GerbilSoft and S&A are standing around
[17:12] <PPA> and GS says urafag and s&a replies with "Yes?"
[17:13] <PPA> And then a cut to Bertin the Bear spectacularly rising up
[17:13] <PPA> perhaps shouting something and then flying into the title screen
[17:21] <PPA> How about "Bertin Now Fail" as grammatically incorrect Game Over message?
[17:23] <PPA> How about me as a boss for a Zone?
[17:23] <PPA> Bertin says "ur a furry"
[17:23] <PPA> then I shout "I';M NOT A FURRY"...
[17:23] <PPA> ...and transofrm into a giant hairy beats >_>
[17:23] <PPA> *transform
[17:23] <PPA> *beast
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I can bs sprites too.
Also level ideas like Honey Fail Act Tree (yes tree).
Also surprise pic to come soon.
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CONCEPT FOR BOXART HAS ARRIVED
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5571/bertinthebear1tk3.png (http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5571/bertinthebear1tk3.png)
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CONCEPT FOR BOXART HAS ARRIVED
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5571/bertinthebear1tk3.png (http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/5571/bertinthebear1tk3.png)
That's just frickin' awesome.
DreamCube 360? *'splodes*
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Dead game is dead? but I even made drowning music in the style of rage meter. :(
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I can supply musical assistance as needed.
Just scream real load if you need me.
Also that cover design is jaw-dropping.
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Premise: A mysterious suitcase is left in the chat, and Rolken opens it! then all of TSC has been turned into animals by a trigger in the suitcase that activates a plot device, and it's Bertin the Bear's job to rescue them by clawing off everyone's face before anyone calls us furries. Includes, but is not limited to, such memorable bosses as:
1) Cherry the Sad Tiger
2) Rolken the Reflective Mirrior with lots of Lasers
3) Stefan the Slightly Magical Dragon
4) Sky the Fanatic Echidna
5) PPA the Neurotic Man in a Fursuit (he missed the suitcase getting opened because he was on vacation and went insane)
6) Gerbil the HIGH TECHNICAL Penguin
7) RR the Whining Bag of Douches who should learn to Appreciate Good Music
8) Mike the Remarkable Ant
9) Tails the Flying Fox
10) RPG the Arcane Albatross of Forbodeing
11) ShadowJacky the Obscene Otter
11) Genus the Totally Badass Final Boss Who's Some Huge Snake or Something and also is Damn Near Impossible to Beat the Normal Way, but it's ok because he's got a Well Hidden though Easy to Exploit Weakness that basically turns the Battle into a Joke
And with a whole host of original baddies for Bertin the Bear to eat, including:
1) Flocks of Normal Type Birds
2) Swarms of Magnezones
3) Radioactive Playstation 3's
4) Other Bears
5) Crocodiles
6) Even Bigger Crocodiles
7) Falcon Punches
8) Robots
9) Attorneys
10) Evil Sand
And more!
Here's one song 3 different ways.
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I highly approve of genus' ideas
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i approve of everything except the music >_>
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Dead game is dead? but I even made drowning music in the style of rage meter. :(
Needs moar original piece.
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It took me like...5 minutes to make that piece. Also Stefan is now "Stefan the Slightly Magical Dragon".
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Is that really an excuse genus?
In the last 5 minutes I made this new piece which could function as 1up music. enjoy!
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Yes, it is.
This is a *more complicated song than I anticipated*, I spent a little while tweaking instruments but this is fine for now.
All complaints about this song must be submitted in the form of "I don't like America because..."
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I dont like America because it is too repetitive for my liking, even when intended as game music >_>
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I don't like America because it sounds like something out of Sonic Shuffle.
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Ok, I just wrote a quick piece for the fight against Stefan the *slightly* Magical Dragon. This fight's intimidating for newer players at first, since Stefan flies around too quickly to land anything and attacks from a distance with slightly scathing fireballs that are hard to dodge...he's seemingly invincible! But 0:22:15 into the fight, Stefan the *slightly* magical dragon is gunned down by a mysterious assassin, none other than the fiendish genus who wanted to write Stefan out of the story!
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I don't like america because it is boring, dissonant, inconsistent, slow, and generally unpleasant to listen to.
Current issues:
are there multiple states of heaviness? should there be a single light bertin, and a single heavy bertin, or some in between states, of which various levels activate various things?
What should heavy bertin accomplish that light bertin can't? collapsable walls, floors? more height of springs? less enemy damage?
Should heaviness really depend on rings?
If it does.. where should rngs start affecting weight? from 20-80? lower starting point? lower end point?
how do we make levels that have multiple routes depending on bertin's heaviness state?
How sparsely are antiring boxes placed?
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Absolutely brilliant genus. :(
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I don't like the idea of nerfing Heavy Bertin's controls, I think it's better to just confer benefits based on gaining weight...making him slower with a worse jump will mean that most players will just say 'screw it' and and stick with Light Bertin (so long as we do not adopt the idea of gaining rings increasing weight, which doesn't sound like a good idea because then weight changes are less a conscientious decision by a player and more an inevitable byproduct of exploring a level and picking up rings along the way, or getting hit...the alternative is to have Bertin change weight based on different capsules, a la shields in S3K...we could even get ambitious with this and offer different forms, like a Mario game, though I say to keep these different forms at roughly the same pace so as not to discourage the use of one over the other).
If we decide "ok screw genus' idea about not making Heavy Bertin a lame slowmer" it is my suggestion that Heavy Bertin and Light Bertin play much differently from one another. Perhaps Light Bertin can, for instance, use some pretty hardcore martial arts, while Heavy Bertin is able to roar like an alpha male and attack distant enemies...or something. Aside from level gimmickry involving different paths or less damage, there needs to be some reason to play as Heavy Bertin.
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if heavy bertin and light bertin are the same, only heavy bertin can do more, there is no point to ever being light bertin.
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What's your point? That sounds like shields in S3K to me.
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Playing differently =/= playing better. Both forms could have their own advantages and weaknesses, but I agree with genus that there'd be no good reason to play as heavy Bertin if he just gets slower with a worse jump, regardless of the alternate routes.
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here's a draft of a heavy and light bertin with different advantages:
heavy bertin: can go through some walls and floors, gets a second jump 'bounce', moves faster downhill, kills enemies more easily, gets higher distance off many stage items, has overall lower speed and jump height, except his downhill peed vs his bounce height.
light bertin: higher jump, higher speed, gets second jump that gets less height than a full bounce, can land on some platforms that otherwise make heavy bertin crumble, is worse at enemies
light bertin could function like sonic, in terms of enemies, while heavy could only get hurt by headshots, for example.
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Should heaviness really depend on rings?
Yes, Bertin should eat the rings and once you have 20 or more, you can use them on "heavy attacks" which dispose of your excess weight in some manner or another (no, not that way).
Heavy attacks are as follows:
20 rings: reduces rings by 5, resets weight to light Bertin, and executes a "ground-pound" maneuver.
40 rings: reduces rings by 10, resets weight to light Bertin, and does a "Berticane" move, which creates a small hurricane
60 or more rings: reduces rings by 20, resets weight to light Bertin, and eliminates all enemies within ~300 yards. Also gives 20 second speed shoes.
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Anyone who's interested in level design: It would be great to have mockups of honey hill zone 1, with multiple paths and gimmicks for both light and heavy bertin!
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When I get a chance, I'll whip something up. One idea I have in mind involves bee hives-if Heavy Bertin runs down a hill, the ground shakes and the beehive falls, releasing bees that chase him, whereas if Light Bertin runs down that same hill the hive remains undisturbed. Right now this is the best weight related gimmick for Honey Hills I can think of, but then again I've only been thinking for a few minutes! Expect great things.
If anyone's feeling especially ambitious and wants to plow through some potential level designs: what are the zones we've come up with so far?
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I designed ~1700 level designs in my spare time, so if one of them fits with the story I'd be glad to submit it.
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This image makes no sense without an explanation, but I'm writing up how the level will go and will post it soon.
Also, here's like...6 seconds of a song that I think would go well with the sky level.
Edit: HERE.
Here's a level mockup that makes no sense without an explanation. First, an overview of level gimmicks used, with the laws of real world physics handled liberally:
1) Spring: Everyone knows what springs do! When Heavy Bertin uses a spring, he goes higher than Light Bertin. Represented on the mockup with a black circle.
2) Beehives: When Heavy Bertin runs fast enough, the ground shakes and he knocks over a beehive, causing angry bees to chase him. The bees only dissapear after Bertin has been stung, when he dives into honey, or runs into a flower. Depicted as yellow circles on the mockup.
3) Honey: Honey has a few different affects depending on location and whether or not the forest has been lit on fire. If the honey is on the hill, it flows, and Light Bertin will be carried by the current similar to how Bubsy is moved by water slides; Heavy Bertin can plow through it unphased. If the honey is on a wall or another even surface, Light Bertin will stick to it and be able to walk anywhere on that surface, including up walls; Heavy Bertin just falls. Both types of Honey are shown as lines of yellow.
4) Stretchy sapling: There's only one of these in the level, serving as a cannon of sorts. that launches Bertin regardless of weight. Heavy Bertin flies in a straight path, destroying all obstacles in his way, while Light Bertin flies in a higher arc. It's pretty obvious what this is on the map.
5) Switch: The switch in this level can only be activated by Heavy Bertin.
6) Trees: Impassable obstacles that need to be destroyed; if he's running full speed down a hill, Heavy Bertin can just crash through them, but Light Bertin needs to find other ways. If a tree has a platform on it, that platform will fall down with the tree. Another gimmick that's pretty obvious when you see it.
7) Flower: If Bertin manages to have the bees pollinate the flower, he can use it to fly. When it touches honey, he falls to the ground. You'll know what the flower is, too.
8) Axe: When Bertin attacks the axe, it will destroy all trees and enemies in its path.
9) Giant Beehive: If the Giant beehive is hit, it will roll and kill basically everything before getting wedged between two platforms and getting honey everywhere. If it is not hit, it can be entered to get *great items*. Marked as "a beehive with stuff in it" in the level concept.
10) Vine: Light Bertin can swing the vine to the goalpost and look pretty awesome doing it. Heavy Bertin can *try*, but the vine will snap. Indicated by a vine-looking whatsit.
11) Beartraps: Comparable to spikes from Sonic, only because whoever created them wasn't very skilled at metallurgy or engineering, they only go off and do damage when Heavy Bertin steps on them, or if Light Bertin stays on one for too long. My beartraps are hideous, but they're still recognisable as beartraps so ok! Awesome.
12) Honey Tobaggon: Just like a homemade slip 'n' slide, but with no shampoo or tarp. This isn't on the map at all, because drawing it in would be impossible.
Gimmicks I wanted to include but didn't for one reason or another:
1) Light Bertin can climb trees: This just wouldn't work with that level setup, maybe another level could use that well.
2) Only Light Bertin can platform on the upper path's canopy: for reasons that should be obvious after the image is posted, I couldn't do this without a serious reworking of the level.
3) Scales: Scale-related puzzles shouldn't be in a level like this, since they stand out.
4) Rainstick: I wanted to have a rainstick in an area only Light Bertin could access that would summon a storm and coat the whole level in faster-than-normal honey, but that seemed too contrived so I dropped it.
6) Bee Exploitation: Using bees to coat platforms/slopes with honey sounded like a cool idea, maybe one that should be used in the other honey hills level. But not this one since I couldn't make room for it.
7) Duel Katana Wielding, Sniper Rifle: I tried man, I tried.
Here's how the level flows, with the main paths outlined in sequence:
(1) Heavy Bertin can reach the higher platform by using this spring to get some goodies, while Light Bertin gets a slightly lower route (2). The tradeoff is that Heavy Bertin can't continue on the string of platforms (3) and reach the sapling like Light Bertin can (9). There will be a way to change forms from 3-9, so that the sapling will launch Bertin two different ways depending on his weight. This is a major diversion, and as such Bertin's paths will be seperated by weight.
*Heavy Bertin*
Heavy Bertin crashes through the trees and *wrecks* them before a cushy landing on a canopy that causes LOTS OF BEEHIVES to fall. Bees chase Bertin to the Giant Beehive, but then sort of lose interest. There are items in the giant beehive so it's not a total waste of time, and Heavy Bertin can just jump back onto the canopy. At (19), Bertin can attempt a difficult jump to vault over an overhang of shrubbery and get...something for the effort. From there, it's a short walk to the goalpost.
*Light Bertin*
Light Bertin slams into the first tree and is knocked down, causing the rest of the trees to fall like dominos and croquet the giant beehive down the hill and up the ramp (14), bridging the gap between the two ramps and felling every tree in the area before seconds later breaking apart and falling into the area below; this whole time, it's leaking honey. If the player is quick, they can hop onto a tree that's been knocked down and use it as a toboggan; this ride will carry them to the fine, which they'll use to swing to the exit, barely avoiding getting clipped by enemies. Otherwise, they'll need to progress through the bottom section, either going onto the platforms or taking their chances crossing the bear traps for goodies (17), eventually reaching a spring that sends them up and lets them walk to the exit.
*or*
Continuing from (1)...oh no, a beehive! Heavy Bertin has to RUN FOR COVER and reach the honey on the slope or pool beneath it, or take damage. Light Bertin can just sort of chill. At (5), Heavy Bertin can choose to climb up the hill of honey or enter an enclave, but Light Bertin is relegated to taking the lower path.
*Heavy Bertin*
Once he clears the hill of honey, Heavy Bertin comes to a line of trees...and an alluring switch (11). When he jumps on the switch, the whole forest catches on fire...as previously noted, only Heavy Bertin can start forest fires. All the trees and beehives are fried, and the honey crystalises over the gap to form solid, though slippery, platforms. Sucking at platforming brings you to the area around (17); otherwise it's a straightforward treck.
*Light Bertin/Heavy Bertin entering the alcove*
If Heavy Bertin is careless, he'll fall through a pit concealed by plants and miss out on some solid items (6). Light Bertin, meanwhile, is dragged onto a honey slide and forced to follow its path (7). An enterprising Heavy Bertin can make the jump at (7), and reach a concealed alcove with things worth getting, using the spring at (8) to return to the honey slide (or alternatively jump to their death at the pit marked "warning! do not jump here because this is a bottomless pit"). A Heavy Bertin reaching (10) will be able to pollinate a flower and use it to fly, fly, fly! until he gets below the giant honey hive and is grounded. Instead of flying, Light Bertin has to scale a few honeyed walls, though this is not without its rewards because at (12) there's an item in a small tree that only he can enter. At (13), Heavy Bertin needs to jump down and plow through some trees, getting the items on top if he's patient enough to wait; Light Bertin needs to jump back and forth between some sticky platforms, sometimes even upside down (blame Galaxy for the idea), before reaching an axe that he must attack to destroy nature. Like Heavy Bertin, he can wait for the items on the tops of those trees to fall. Then things happen and you reach the goalpost.
Comments?
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My basic opinion:
A lot of level items are fabulous, hats off. The level design isn't perfect, but the level unique concepts are pretty awesome.
Oh, and I have better sky level music i'm working on.
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Just want to make sure I'm doing it right before I continue designing this level
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Ok, so I lay awake this night and made a concept sketch for Honey Hills. And some random, sleep-deprived doodles.
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Cool art! However, the concept was that there were two forms of bertin: there was light (probably represented as your normal), and heavy. Anyway, I like that you made a lot of things geometrical; it sort of imitates honeycomb.
Good stuff!
Also ringrush, I would refrain from using too many 'race against the clock oops dead end' designs.
Attached are two unfinished midis which I'll develop at a later date. Cloud is intended for a sky type of level, but I have nothing in mind for the other!
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Here's an idea: have floors and walls only destructable by heavy Bertin that reveal shortcuts/alternate routes that can make up for a small lack in speed. Light Bertin must take the normal road, which is longer.
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I edited my draft of honey hills based on input from various members. The following gimmicks have been added:
Malaysian Tiger Trap-Launches Bertin high into the air at breakneck speed, demolishing all obstacles in his path. It's the dark circle with a line through it at (21).
Honey globs-Functionally identical to the vine I originally had in place for Light Bertin, only Light Bertin can use these to swing. If he takes too long to jump, bees appear. Depicted as a yellow line with a yellow circle on the bottom.
Honey Lake-Basically the same thing as water. If Heavy Bertin set the forest on fire, he can walk across part of it before falling through the bottom. Begins at (22).
Light Honeycombs-These float on the lake of honey, and allow Light Bertin to navigate the lake; when Heavy Bertin tries to jump on one, it breaks apart immediately. Shown as black circles in the lake.
Honey Tsunami-Once Light Bertin reaches (30), a tidal wave of honey carries the light honeycombs and they gradually sink; while this is going on, Bertin must also dodge bees. Only happens if Light Bertin stands on the second light honeycomb.
Hive Maze-A large hive above the lake, sticky of course. If he times his jumps well, Bertin can enter the hive and find lots of items; otherwise he'll either need to complete the lake segment or walk around the outside as Light Bertin.
Impenetrable Honeycomb-The obstacle at (31), only destructible by flipping the fire switch earlier in the act.
Honey Waterfall-Honey pours out of the hive maze if it is damaged, and either Bertin can use it to freely jump; think the sand pillars in Sandopolis.
The following things have been changed:
The Flower: replaced by a spring that Heavy Bertin needs to use in order to jump over the trees.
The Axe: replaced by a large knothole for Light Bertin to jump through.
The Vine: scrapped entirely, though reimagined in the form of honey globules.
Resuming the level path from the blue line at (21):
Upper/Middle
Whether Light or Heavy, both Bertins will enter the lake at (22).
Heavy
Heavy Bertin wades through the lake, doing all sorts of platforming that I didn't outline because that is not the point of these sketches; ideally this will be tiered, and not just a flatbottom setup as depicted. Reaching the honeycomb at (21), a Heavy Bertin that did not flip the switch will use a spring to land on it, causing the hive maze to cave in and create a honey waterfall that he will traverse to the goal. If he flipped the switch, he will be access another platforming segment which he must complete before reaching the goal.
Light
Light Bertin jumps on the light honeycombs at (30), and the honey tsunami begins. The honeycombs are carried and start sinking, he has to jump back and forth while dodging bees; success will net him a much faster time and some items, while failure forces him to become Heavy Bertin and complete the level with his longer path.
Lower
Light Bertin is launched from the trap at (21) into the upper portion of the level. From there, he'll swing on the honey globules (23) and depending on his jumping skills he'll either land into the hive, onto the honey slides, or onto the water below.
He can't platform very well
The honey slides carry Bertin to a beartrap (24), if he doesn't think quickly he gets nailed and falls into the water below. If he does think quickly, he'll use the honey globules to stick himself to the hive (27) and walk on it to the finish.
He makes the jump
He's basically platforming in the hive maze for a while; I suppose that we could implement some crazy "running fast enough rotates the whole mechanism and opens up new paths" gimmick, but again, brevity to preserve clarity of the raw concept on my part. Path diverges at (26)
Heavy
This part of the honeycomb collapses, and falls into the water; it's carried to shore by the current, and from there Bertin can just hit the goalpost.
Light
Continues to navigate the maze until (29), when the floor bursts open and the level ends.
I have a Sky Level about halfway finished but I'm going to see the Dark Knight in a little while so I won't get it done until tomorrow.