The Sonic Center
Sonic Central => Leaderboard Disputes => Rules Revisions => Topic started by: Muzozavr on July 08, 2008, 07:46:54 pm
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There are some particular glitches which either "shift" the beginning of the act to a later part (well, that could be considered resetting time to zero) or make the game think that you have completed an act while, in reality, you haven't.
Examples:
The former -- Play Ice Cap 1 as Knux. Reach the boss without hitting any checkpoints. Die from the boss. The act will restart directly from the boss fight and you can easily get a small time.
The latter -- Launch Base 1:
1) Take an elevator. You need one particular, but I don't remember which, I saw it in a video anyway.
2) Either take damage or turn super while inside the elevator. You'll maintain control.
3) Spindash a few times to pause the camera. The elevator will unload and you'll be stuck in a wall.
4) Zip to the right. If you took the correct elevator you'll be able to reach Knuckles's boss area. Now, he has TWO guys to fight, right? Sonic, however, normally has only one.
5) Hit both of the bosses 7 times.
6) Kill one of them.
7) Wait for the game to give you "act 1 completed" message".
8) As soon as you regain control, kill the other boss.
9) The game will credit you for completing "act 2" under 2-3 seconds.
Are such actions allowed? I certainly hope not, cause if they are, such bugs will utterly destroy any competition on the levels vulnerable to them.
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So you basically get the timer to reset mid-level? If so (most likely at least the first), the rules forbid it.
Using any method to reset the timer to zero in the middle of a level is not allowed.
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"You may start any zone's Act 2 from the end of Act 1 or from selecting Act 2 in stage select, but from nowhere else."
That clause is what you're looking for.
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5) Hit both of the bosses 7 times.
You mean 5 times, as act-1 bosses require only 6 hits.
In any case, yes, those both fall under illegal modification of the start position. Icecap 2 has a similar trick by flat-out skipping the act 1 boss and playing against the act 2 boss as though it were still act 1: capsule hit gives act 1 clear, and you start act 2 just a spindash away from advancement to Launch Base without even a clear screen.
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"You may start any zone's Act 2 from the end of Act 1 or from selecting Act 2 in stage select, but from nowhere else."
That clause is what you're looking for.
Thanks, now I know.
You mean 5 times, as act-1 bosses require only 6 hits.
Oops, sorry.
Icecap 2 has a similar trick by flat-out skipping the act 1 boss and playing against the act 2 boss as though it were still act 1.
As the TAS demonstrates, the same can be done in Marble Garden.
Fine then, question number 2: is it sufficent to get the "act clear" message or do you need to be able to get to the next level?
Launch Base 2 has a trick that allows you to access Knuckles's boss as Tails (I think, the vid used Sonic+Tails for flight) but when you get the cutscene... the game never, ever, goes onto the next level.
Not that getting to Knuckles's boss is any quicker. (In fact, I don't know)
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Fine then, question number 2: is it sufficent to get the "act clear" message or do you need to be able to get to the next level?
Not only do you need to be able to get to the next level, the game has to send you there automatically for a stat to count.
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Funnily enough, we've just been discussing similar things on the rules committee.
Launch Base isn't clearly covered by the rules, but I suppose since it's impossible to complete the level from a Knuckles act 2 start, it'd be covered by my new rule saying you must progress to the next level. But if it ever became possible, then we would have a situation.
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Fine then, is your stat for act 2 valid if the game displays it as act 1?
If you do the Knuckles's boss trick in Launch Base 1, and then die at the score tally, you start act 2 from Sonic's start but it displays as act 1.
(If you'll mention about starting act 2 from the wrong location: Knuckles's boss IS the end of act 1, nobody said it's got to be the right end out of two)
Because then, if you kill Knux's boss with Tails you WILL get to Mushroom Hill.
And also another question: is your stat for act 2 valid, if you somehow manage to move before the timer starts, during the "Act 1 clear" message? It was done in TAS for Mushroom Hill, and since it doesn't RESET the timer, but rather you start before it starts, so...
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Fine then, is your stat for act 2 valid if the game displays it as act 1?
If you do the Knuckles's boss trick in Launch Base 1, and then die at the score tally, you start act 2 from Sonic's start but it displays as act 1.
No, nor is what the game treats as "act 2" acceptable for act 2. Whether or not playing act 2 is permissible for act 1 is subject to debate, but I'd say it's not.
(If you'll mention about starting act 2 from the wrong location: Knuckles's boss IS the end of act 1, nobody said it's got to be the right end out of two)
Indeed, you'll find that starting in Sonic's area with Knuckles is permissible in Ice Cap 2.
And also another question: is your stat for act 2 valid, if you somehow manage to move before the timer starts, during the "Act 1 clear" message? It was done in TAS for Mushroom Hill, and since it doesn't RESET the timer, but rather you start before it starts, so...
Another one that's subject to debate. I can't see it ever happening in real time, but if it did I would be inclined to allow it (because let's face it, good luck having control while you can't see what's going on).
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In a level that is not Ice Cap, since the boss hop was specifically disallowed there, is it permissible (if possible at all) to:
1) Skip the act 1 boss.
2) Change act 2 in a way benefical to you. (Like open a certain door)
3) Skip the boss boundary BACKWARDS. (I don't know if it's actually possible anywhere in the game, but it's a theoretical question anyway)
4) Fight the act 1 boss.
5) Enter act 2, pre-modified for your pleasure.
Where to draw the line for pre-level modification? The mind boggles...
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i know this forums old but u can skip Act 1 boss in angel island if u know the debug glitch and head through where knux breaks the rocks but dont untransform or go up when the screen budges up stay down and head towards Act 2 boss and when beaten it will say ¿Sonic Has Cleared Act 1¿ and then youll fall after knux presses tha switch
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i know this forums old but u can skip Act 1 boss in angel island if u know the debug glitch and head through where knux breaks the rocks but dont untransform or go up when the screen budges up stay down and head towards Act 2 boss and when beaten it will say ¿Sonic Has Cleared Act 1¿ and then youll fall after knux presses tha switch
1) Debug isn't allowed here/ignored here, so don't ever bring it up
2) Stop being an idiot and posting in these old, dead threads. You should know not to do such a thing.
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i know debug modes not allowed im just saying use it outside of speedruns and any records
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i know debug modes not allowed im just saying use it outside of speedruns and any records
Your comment also had nothing to do with the first post, or any of the other ones. Try reading through a topic before you actually post in one.