The Sonic Center
Sonic Central => Leaderboard Disputes => Topic started by: GerbilSoft on January 10, 2007, 03:22:00 pm
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Nelspike TX just submitted quite a few suspicious #1 scores:
Sonic 3:
- Angel Island 1: 130,700 (previous #1 was 65,700)
- Angel Island 2: 125,400 (previous #1 was 44,200)
- Hydrocity 1: 115,800 (previous #1 was 59,800)
I'm calling BS since these scores are pretty much double the old #1's, which is practically impossible (especially since Nelspike TX has only submitted a few other records.)
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Looks like they used the 9:59 time bonus. Note that the rules have a "9:58 or less" clause: time bonus is supposed to force a tradeoff between finishing fast and scoring high there or being able to explore everything and get all those points. When you can max out both worlds, the time bonus loses much of its purpose, so we don't use 100000 time bonuses here.
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Could also have used special stages...
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Yeah the rules say something about those too. >_>
You may not enter Bonus Stages or Special Stages in the middle of a level.
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Oh man... I knew this was coming Xp
As some of you may know (from visiting SCD), I'm a friend of Nelspike's. I was actually online in an MSN convo with him at the time that he got these scores last night. However, when he was actually telling me about them, I wasn't really focusing that much, as I was busy doing work on Sonic Heroes myself (and getting a bit riled with the game... *ahem...*), so I was just saying 'good work' and such to them. It was only once he told me he submitted these stats before disappearing offline that I noticed how hefty the scores he got were in comparison to the existing records. Upon seeing them, I expected there was likely to be some BS calls on them. If I had paid more attention when he stated them as he got them, I probably would've quizzed him on them.
Anywhos... I would suspect that he used the 9:59 bonus to get the scores. The breaks between him telling me he was going to try an act and stating his score was a long period of time, maybe 10 minutes or more. I expect he probably overlooked the rule stating that acts in Sonic 3/& Knuckles cannot be completed in 9:59 when he read the rules page (he's only recently begun using the system, so it's possible to overlook some things without intention).
Of course, I can't really act as a proper defence for him, since I'm not sure what exactly he did, for the reason I stated at the beginning, so I'm only assuming ^^;; But I thought it would be best to give some incite on what has likely happened. I'll probably catch up with him later, so I'll tell him to stop by here and explain what he did to get those scores when I do.
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Well, I got the scores with a major 9:59 and 100K bonus, but I didn't know that that was against the rules! =P
Well, if you can forgive me, I'll remove the scores ASAP. ;-) I have no much problem on that, since I can try my best to get new scores. Sorry about all the mess and stuffz, I thought that it was valid, and after all it isn't! =P Sorry about all that.
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I told you guys the rules weren't emphasized (layout-wise) enough. :(
Though you'd think that if 9:59 was allowed, we might, y'know, have bigger scores ourselves. Just a thought. (We're not stupid, you know. We know how these things work.)
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Well, I got the scores with a major 9:59 and 100K bonus, but I didn't know that that was against the rules! =P
Well, if you can forgive me, I'll remove the scores ASAP. ;-) I have no much problem on that, since I can try my best to get new scores. Sorry about all the mess and stuffz, I thought that it was valid, and after all it isn't! =P Sorry about all that.
Not wanting to gripe at you, but how could you seriously believe that you completely destroyed the prior records on those levels by "using a nifty trick that none else knows about but I do and I'm going to use it and show you all my skill"? You know, this is the premier Sonic game playing resource, and we've played all of these games extensively. The records you see on this site aren't pushovers that can be outclassed in just a few attempts, people should realise this before they ignore the rules and write comments like "beat that!" and "owned!!" while thinking they're the best player on the site.
All members are told to read the rules before they submit stats, yet many still doesn't. I'm thinking that if you can't be bothered to read the rules then you can't be bothered to submit stats either. Can't new members be required to read and aknowledge that they'll follow the competition rules when they first register?
I made a recording of the real record score as Knuckles on Angel Island 1, watch it and then try to beat it.
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I see a recent submission of 100200 on AI1. That doesn't even work; if you get 100000 from the time bonus, the boss still gives you at least 1000 even if you hit no other enemies and have no rings at the end.
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Can't new members be required to read and aknowledge that they'll follow the competition rules when they first register?
While thats a great idea in theory, people would just scroll straight to the bottom and tick "I accept"
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Quiz 'em on the rules right after they read them.
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*brushes off the ashes of banness*
no problem dude ;) as long as you fixed them, just remember to read the rules for every game you want to compete in...about 10 times is what I do to make sure I dont get banned for ignorance.... (but you just got...) that was a different kind of ignorance!
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Well, I got the scores with a major 9:59 and 100K bonus, but I didn't know that that was against the rules! =P
Well, if you can forgive me, I'll remove the scores ASAP. ;-) I have no much problem on that, since I can try my best to get new scores. Sorry about all the mess and stuffz, I thought that it was valid, and after all it isn't! =P Sorry about all that.
Not wanting to gripe at you, but how could you seriously believe that you completely destroyed the prior records on those levels by "using a nifty trick that none else knows about but I do and I'm going to use it and show you all my skill"? You know, this is the premier Sonic game playing resource, and we've played all of these games extensively. The records you see on this site aren't pushovers that can be outclassed in just a few attempts, people should realise this before they ignore the rules and write comments like "beat that!" and "owned!!" while thinking they're the best player on the site.
All members are told to read the rules before they submit stats, yet many still doesn't. I'm thinking that if you can't be bothered to read the rules then you can't be bothered to submit stats either. Can't new members be required to read and aknowledge that they'll follow the competition rules when they first register?
I made a recording of the real record score as Knuckles on Angel Island 1, watch it and then try to beat it.
I'm not calling unskilled people to you guys. I didn't know the rules, that's all, and as SB said, you guys would have bigger scores if what I did was valid!
Meh, I think there's no biggy to have an argument here. I just say that I made a mistake! One thing, for you eredani: How the heck you guys do 0:40 in CNZ1? MAyeb glitches, or Super/Hyper Forms I suppose. WHo guarantees me you don't use them?
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Can't new members be required to read and aknowledge that they'll follow the competition rules when they first register?
While thats a great idea in theory, people would just scroll straight to the bottom and tick "I accept"
At which point they would be banned. That's beyond a permissible level of recklessness.
As it is, I think a firm slap will suffice heh.
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I'm not calling unskilled people to you guys. I didn't know the rules, that's all, and as SB said, you guys would have bigger scores if what I did was valid!
Meh, I think there's no biggy to have an argument here. I just say that I made a mistake! One thing, for you eredani: How the heck you guys do 0:40 in CNZ1? MAyeb glitches, or Super/Hyper Forms I suppose. WHo guarantees me you don't use them?
...Exactly my point? So why did you use that trick if you're capable of such excellent logic as to deduce that we didn't use it for our own scores?
How have anyone claimed that you bring unskilled people to TSC? You didn't read the rules, and if that's all there is to it then you shouldn't be competing here in the first place. And before anyone forgets, how would you get 100200 points on AI1 Knuckles?
Where did you get the idea that anyone here have 40 seconds on Carnival Night 1? As for if we're trustable, I direct your attention to this page: http://www.soniccenter.org/videos/sonic_3
When you make a giz recording, it's impossible to use savestates without desyncing the movie. Which means that what you see is what the player have actually done in real time, and even if we don't always use giz files to record gameplay, we're still not using tools for the simple reason that it's cheating. It isn't allowed for anyone to use them in a completed run through a level in order for the attained stat to be a legit record.
Edit: Since when are glitches disallowed in competition?
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Whoa, chill out guys :)
As far as I'm concerned, someone submitting things that are against the rules without intending to cheat isn't a problem. Remember my Sonic 2 times that were all set using Sonic+Tails? The true test is whether the situation is rectified when the player is asked, like I did and like Nelspike appears to have done, and whether people pay attention in future. Of course, if a person fails to follow the rules multiple times then you have to do something, but let's not overreact to an honest mistake, eh?
Nelspike, as for assurances that no cheating is going on, we have vids and the like to prove a player can achieve good stats (although we don't require vids for everything obviously) and we also have pretty good BS detection methods which, to prevent people getting round them, we don't tell everyone. Rest assured our cheat-detection is pretty good :)
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I agree with skylights before they are able to submit a stat for a certian game they should get quized on the rules. this will cut down mistakes like this, also if we catch some one still submiting stuff like this when they already had the quiz, we will know they are an instant lier and should be banned, unless of course its just a typo. I don't know maybe they should get one warning, instant ban is kind of harsh, even though they really dont deserve to TA here anymore.
also nelspike: you asked if they used hyper/super sonic for a certain level. hyper/super im pretty sure is not aloud in sonic 3 TAing
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Whoa, chill out guys :)
As far as I'm concerned, someone submitting things that are against the rules without intending to cheat isn't a problem. Remember my Sonic 2 times that were all set using Sonic+Tails? The true test is whether the situation is rectified when the player is asked, like I did and like Nelspike appears to have done, and whether people pay attention in future. Of course, if a person fails to follow the rules multiple times then you have to do something, but let's not overreact to an honest mistake, eh?
Nelspike, as for assurances that no cheating is going on, we have vids and the like to prove a player can achieve good stats (although we don't require vids for everything obviously) and we also have pretty good BS detection methods which, to prevent people getting round them, we don't tell everyone. Rest assured our cheat-detection is pretty good :)
Yep, I got that right now, but still, guys it was a mistake of mine... Chill out with all this!
Eredani, what I said is that glitches are allowed, and that it was no use for us to be discussing that right now. So, I'll submit a time for DEZ1 as Tails. Just got 2:07 ;-)
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While we're on the BS topic...
http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_3/times/launch_base_1/sonic
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Eredani, what I said is that glitches are allowed, and that it was no use for us to be discussing that right now. So, I'll submit a time for DEZ1 as Tails. Just got 2:07 ;-)
One thing, for you eredani: How the heck you guys do 0:40 in CNZ1? MAyeb glitches, or Super/Hyper Forms I suppose. WHo guarantees me you don't use them?
Edit: Since when are glitches disallowed in competition?
Good job in continuing to contradict yourself... What is the reason behind you never bothering to answer to anything we say properly? You keep twisting your own words the other way around after we prove you wrong, and then claim the points we make as your own, wtf?
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While we're on the BS topic...
http://www.soniccenter.org/rankings/sonic_3/times/launch_base_1/sonic
I call super/hyper form poorly used!...but, still used
edit: well i don't know because i've never TA this, though it is some what belivable atleast its not something like 2:29! and a ZOMG ZOMG ZOMG comment! y,know? to be lieing your ass off by 8 seconds on a level like this would be pretty bold.
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Woah, my 2-day-old record surpassed by 8 seconds.
I had actually planned to write a guide on that LB1 2:30.
If this record is real i can as well scratch that idea.
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Woah, my 2-day-old record surpassed by 8 seconds.
I had actually planned to write a guide on that LB1 2:30.
If this record is real i can as well scratch that idea.
how perfect would you say your run was? better yet, do you think that you could beat your old record by 8 seconds? this guy's records are a little "... ummm?" well if he can get 2:22 he should have no problem getting atleast 2:29 and taking a picture eh?
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Well, that is a good question, and i am sure that i am not capable of answering it.
I started speedrunning only a couple of month ago while others here have been at it for years, but i can send the recording of my run to one of the S3-experienced admins to judge this.
Of course, a better way to resolve this issue would be if Nelspike supplied some kind of proof for his stats.
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Eredani, what I said is that glitches are allowed, and that it was no use for us to be discussing that right now. So, I'll submit a time for DEZ1 as Tails. Just got 2:07 ;-)
One thing, for you eredani: How the heck you guys do 0:40 in CNZ1? MAyeb glitches, or Super/Hyper Forms I suppose. WHo guarantees me you don't use them?
Edit: Since when are glitches disallowed in competition?
Good job in continuing to contradict yourself... What is the reason behind you never bothering to answer to anything we say properly? You keep twisting your own words the other way around after we prove you wrong, and then claim the points we make as your own, wtf?
Now now Eredani, we don't need this inflated into a war-scaled battle. He's gotten his warning.
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Now now Eredani, we don't need this inflated into a war-scaled battle. He's gotten his warning.
He got the warning for submitting stats that are against the rules, and he have admitted to it since. But he have also submitted false stats that he haven't explained the reasoning behind when he was questioned about them.
Nelspike submitted a Ring count of 315 along with his score for Angel Island 1 Sonic, which implies that the ring bonus alone would've been 31500. Add 1000 points for the sub-boss along with the huge time bonus, and you get 132500 total score while not counting badniks. That's 1800 points missing from the submission.
He have yet to explain why he submitted the 100200 AI1K score, and it's very improbable that he only earned an additional 200 points in his entire 101200 Hydrocity 1 Knuckles score run.
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Now now Eredani, we don't need this inflated into a war-scaled battle. He's gotten his warning.
He got the warning for submitting stats that are against the rules, and he have admitted to it since. But he have also submitted false stats that he haven't explained the reasoning behind when he was questioned about them.
Nelspike submitted a Ring count of 315 along with his score for Angel Island 1 Sonic, which implies that the ring bonus alone would've been 31500. Add 1000 points for the sub-boss along with the huge time bonus, and you get 132500 total score while not counting badniks. That's 1800 points missing from the submission.
He have yet to explain why he submitted the 100200 AI1K score, and it's very improbable that he only earned an additional 200 points in his entire 101200 Hydrocity 1 Knuckles score run.
Everytime I do ring counts I don't do them fast, I take my time. I made 315 out of AIZ1.
About the Knuckles score at HCZ1, I killed two badniks. And about the 100200 one, I used the one that appears after the points are summed up. I finished out with 0 rings.
I have some nifty times at SCD, go check them. If you permit me a suggestion, I'd like to suggest the Super/Hyper Forms sumbimitting stats in the table. A true player knows how to control everyone of them ;) Well, that's my suggestion, and hope we guys get over this, since it was a mistake of mine, not reading the rules. I'm sorry about all this, and hope we don't get bad at all. Sorry about all the stuff =(...
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ya, eredani I think he's belivable, besides he was good enough to get the super emerald's and even 1 master emerald and as you know those are targeted around sonic1,2,and3. He's fixed all his mistakes and typo's, and was honest about his scores, and now we should be left with your average S3&K player, I think we are done here.
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*sigh*
http://www.soniccenter.org/members/nelspike_tx/sonic_heroes/times/seaside_hill/sonic
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About the Knuckles score at HCZ1, I killed two badniks. And about the 100200 one, I used the one that appears after the points are summed up. I finished out with 0 rings.
That doesn't even work. If you were reading off the total bonus, and had 0 rings, that's 100000 time + 0 ring = 100000 bonus, not 100200. If you were using the total score instead, no matter how many Badniks you hit, you would have had to defeat the boss, and that's 1000, for a minimum of 101000.
And now you have this Heroes problem to contend with.
Note that yse's group membership is "If I Had A (Ban)Hammer". Well, you might be interested in knowing that he does have one now, and so do I. Things are going to change, or that hammer is going to leave a bloody mess. I can sense it.
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Is it just me, or is there a new wave of lying/BS going on recently? I might as well get the umbrella ready since it might start *raining* if the ban hammer does get used.
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isn't TSC lieing policy "no mercy?" ban tis piece of crap </flame>