The Sonic Center
Welcome Center => News and Updates => Topic started by: Rolken on October 15, 2006, 09:15:18 pm
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Watch and weep. They've somehow managed to edit Sonic 1 GBA to bring it up to date with the rest of the series, adding such features as a crappy framerate and glitchy broken physics. And it's supposedly 95% complete. Heavens help us.
Addendum: Please, no one support this kind of shameless abuse of Sonic. Sega has constantly been pushing the bar in the degree of greed and apathy towards quality with which they "develop" their games, and at some point there has to be something said against it. If it remains in the current state, I do not intend to create rankings for it; to have such a mockery of decent Sonic games on our rankings is abominable. There's plenty of fan-made Sonic 1 hacks out there with spindashing that are of far better quality.
Addendum pt2: It's worth noting that the rape doesn't end with destroying the physics and framerate. There was a video on cult (toward the end) of the GHZ boss, which has been completely nerfed; the boss no longer swings in sync with his movements, so it's now safe to just stand on the platforms and attack when Eggman approaches for the first four swings or so. And in another trick from the Sonic next-gen book, Sonic falls through a platform at one point. Totally unacceptable.
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Well, hopefully they fix those problems before they finish the other supposed 5%.
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I support your cause, Rolko. It's a toned-down Sonic Jam copy of Sonic 1.
*plays Sonic 1 Megamix again*
God, I can't wait for this to be finished. You weren't kidding, the hackers are better at it. It's a shame, really.
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I guess I wont be competing in Sonic 1 after all :(
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I agree that looks terrible, the slow bounce speed sucks.
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Guys, I don't think it's physics. It's slowdown. Look at the timer.
Still inexcusable, but not quite as baffling.
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I guess I wont be competing in Sonic 1 after all :(
Get a rom you dolt. Or Mega Collection. Or use eBay. Or something. I'd give you mine but I like my original copy kthx. :(
Also Rolk you forgot to mention the failure to keep the viewing volume THE SAME SIZE (or similar). You can see the difference between these two shots, just by how much of the loop is viewed.
Original Version (Shot taken by me in Gens)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y106/Spinballwizard/s1origloop.png)
GBA Version (Courtesy of SEGA)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y106/Spinballwizard/ss_sthgenesis_02.jpg)
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Sonic DX was totally messed up. The graphics are too sharp. And Metal Sonic has it lucky. EVERY TIME I GET A GOOD RUN ON RED MOUNTAIN TAILS GRABS A STUPID ROCKET (I have the DC version. I gotta get SA2B and try the stuff SM does) The good old sonic were kinda fun. I remember the first day i tried out debug mode. That was 1 month ago. And the green hill zone was awesome. Stupid Nintendo, messing Sega games up with thier ideas, while having the power of sonic to make up for it.
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SM is a DC Player, not GC
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Nintendo doesn't affect the way Sonic games are made. Sonic games saw a steady decline after the release of Sonic & Knuckles, even though it can be argued that the Adventure series games were well received in their time. When the games were, you know, on Sega's consoles.
Oh and for someone with a picture of Silver as their avatar, you have no right to ridicule (new) Sonic Team.
In closing, get off my internet.
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All throughout this year, a trend of horrifying remakes of original classics has been born. First we have Bomerman Act Zero, an insult to everything good about Bomberman. Then we have the new Bubble Bobble, a remake full of bugs, including one in which the level 30 boss doesn't appear, making it impossible to get past level 30 (out of 100). Will this be the third strike? Only time will tell. On the bright side, at least you're not being forced to play MMX6. That right there is a true abomination, consisting of level design so horrible that some stages (particullary the Gate stages) are impossible to clear unless you use a specific form, and bosses in which the intended weakness doesn't work because they failed to play test its lair.
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When you said crappy frame rate you weren't joking.
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Guys, I don't think it's physics. It's slowdown. Look at the timer.
It's both. When Sonic reorients while "running" in the air he jolts around slightly, and his interaction with all the level objects is wonky, culminating with the straight-from-Advance-3 death from pushing against a moving block.
As for the screen size shrinkage, it's unfortunate, but I'm more willing to forgive that as something has to go when you reduce the screen size from 320x224 to 240x160 and the only alternative is to create new art for the entire game.
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All throughout this year, a trend of horrifying remakes of original classics has been born. [etc]
Wow, that's awful. I heard about Bomberman, but I didn't know about the other, even worse bastardizations.
Edit 2- stuff merged into FP.
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All I can say is the final product had better make that 5% count.
I don't want to see this opportunity for a good port go bad.
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All I can say is the final product had better make that 5% count.
I don't want to see this opportunity for a good port go bad.
I agree.
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One-liner :(
Oh God, I just saw the video. SOMEBODY STOP IT. YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE ALL OF HIM. D:
Yeah, it's (more) official. Sonic 1 on Genesis has about 10,000,000 points better than "Sonic the Hedgehog 'Genesis.'"
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This is the kind of quality I'd expect from the Sonic 1 mobile handset port. As in from what little I've seen, that's how the phone game appears to play lol.
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We have known for a long time the screen size would have taken a hit. (which is why I lost interest in the game) I don't see how this commotion is justified.
It's almost definitely going to be sped up to normal for the final release. I just don't see it being released as it is.
Bomberman Act Zero is a GOOD GAME. There is literally nothing wrong with it.
Rockman X6 was horrible. (Rockman X7 would have worked as well) Although it wasn't so much that the final stages were basically impossible in certain forms, so much that you couldn't quit a level without getting a game over. (and since game over had no penalty, extra lives were a liability) And there's also the laughable enemy spriting.
Sonic DX was totally messed up. The graphics are too sharp.
Yea! Plus the framerate was WAY too high.
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We have known for a long time the screen size would have taken a hit. (which is why I lost interest in the game) I don't see how this commotion is justified.
You missed the point.
It's almost definitely going to be sped up to normal for the final release. I just don't see it being released as it is.
lol
Bomberman Act Zero is a GOOD GAME. There is literally nothing wrong with it.
lolwut
Rockman X6 was horrible. (Rockman X7 would have worked as well) Although it wasn't so much that the final stages were basically impossible in certain forms, so much that you couldn't quit a level without getting a game over. (and since game over had no penalty, extra lives were a liability) And there's also the laughable enemy spriting.
wut
Sonic DX was totally messed up. The graphics are too sharp.
Yea! Plus the framerate was WAY too high.
lolwut
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... Dude.
We have known for a long time the screen size would have taken a hit. (which is why I lost interest in the game) I don't see how this commotion is justified.
One person took offense to the screen size. There's 18 comments here. That's hardly a commotion.
Bomberman Act Zero is a GOOD GAME. There is literally nothing wrong with it.
No. You are wrong. I can say that with absolute certainty despite never having even laid eyes on the thing, simply because everyone hates it (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/929921.asp). There's one 70% "ok this game is tolerable" review out of *37*. Games with nothing wrong are not universally hated.
Seriously, man.
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Can't say I'm surprised. Sonic Team's attitude to continued sales of old-skool multipacks and whatnot and poor reception to their current games has always ignore the latter and continue to whore off the former, rather than make any attempt to understand why the originals are so good and use that to make good new games. It's a shame because given the coverage of Sonic 06 there's clearly still a market for Sonic, if only they could make a game that was halfway decent.
However, if (when) they release this turdfest, it'll at least be interesting to see what ridiculous defence Egg will come up with for it. I'm taking a book; current favourite is "Pretend flaws don't exist" at evens, with "Patronise anyone who dislikes the game" at 2-1 and "Aggressively denounce non-fanboys" at 3-1. Outside punt of "This shows you old-skool was rubbish so the new games must be awesome" at 10-1. Any takers?
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I put my foot in his mouth before he can say a damn thing: dead cert.
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Although 2006 is the year of remakes as I said earlier, to be honest it actually started out on a positive note with the release to Maverick Hunter X and MM: Powered up, two excellent remakes for the PSP. Then the other abominations were released. Here's to hoping this new Sonic remake actually turns out good in the end.
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for the PSP.
That completely murdered your post.
/me shot
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OH MY GOD RPG YOUR AVATAR IS FUCKING AWESOME HOLY FUCKING JESUS SHIT
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second'd
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I meant SA2 sorry
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Addendum: Please, no one support this kind of shameless abuse of Sonic. Sega has constantly been pushing the bar in the degree of greed and apathy towards quality with which they "develop" their games, and at some point there has to be something said against it. If it remains in the current state, I do not intend to create rankings for it; to have such a mockery of decent Sonic games on our rankings is abominable. There's plenty of fan-made Sonic 1 hacks out there with spindashing that are of far better quality.
But it won't matter. Thousands of angry Sonic fans signed petitions to get rid of the 4Kids actors, but did anything happen? No. Those games were very successful (at least in sales).
SEGA can do one stupid thing after another, but people will still buy their games,
either because there's no choice, or because they're kids who want the games because
they have "characters from sonic x" in them. But I agree that... how do I describe it?...
it kind of feels good to bash badly-made games and do extreme and even ridiculous things about them, even if few people know (like my plans to redo some of Riders's acting).
SilvertheAlmighty: Off-topic, but it's true that Tails can get annoying. I use Metal Sonic for
a few stages, including Sky Deck, because Tails attacks planes to make Sonic float up a bit,
and Lost World, because he randomly presses the 3 switches to change the camera.
My complaint about the graphics is that they don't come close to GameCube quality.
It's a huge leap over the Dreamcast version in some ways, but I would've expected a perfect framerate,
consistent texture quality, and waaaaay more polygons. And waaaaaaaaaaaay better draw distance.
I don't know what you mean by "sharp", though. Polygony, or too much flicker? (Both are true.)
eggFL: 1. Yeah, the change in screen size was to be expected. Or could it have been
crunched in a bit to just get more pixelated? (If that had happened, it would've looked really bad.
I just tried it, and it makes everything a bit blobby. Also, the zeros all turn into Ds. "TIME D:D1")
2. But GBA is weaker than Genesis! (When SEGA makes the GBA games, that is.) It'd be impossible!
3. Bomberman Act Zero is good because it's on XB360, right?
4. I'm not sure what you meant about SADX's framerate. I thought you said you hadn't seen DX.
Anyway, some people did think the framerate was too high, but there are many more complaints
about how it manages to keep chopping when it's not even displaying much of anything.
douglas: I thought they got good sales on everything. If not, why is Sonic Heroes a
Player's Choice and Platinum Hit, and why did Sonic Riders get into Nintendo Power's sales lists?
Anyway, they should release big collections (I liked Gems, but they could've done better- like
by putting in Chaotix, although I'm already aware that they can't emulate anything),
and good remakes (lots of stuff added, nothing removed, maybe some beta content),
and good new games (by actually listening to the fans for once, or even just hiring some guy
at minimum wage to spend a few hours testing their games and find the obvious flaws).
Just find a good balance that gives most of your old games to all the players at a good price,
and also delivers great new games to everyone- including Nintendo players. How hard can it be?
They haven't done too terribly so far, but they've made a ton of stupid decisions, and
I can't even begin to explain how ridiculously easy it would be to fix the problems.
Oh, and I agree about them not trying to see what people liked about games.
But this will need a whole new thread if we're (or I'm) to complain much more.
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it'll at least be interesting to see what ridiculous defence Egg will come up with for it. I'm taking a book; ... with "Patronise anyone who dislikes the game" at 2-1
That's good odds! $20 on that.
I suggest you add a couple, though:
"Better than Bomberman Act Zero" at 7-2
"Realise what a fool I've been" at 100k-1
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Anyway, they should release big collections (I liked Gems, but they could've done better- like by putting in Chaotix, although I'm already aware that they can't emulate anything),and good remakes (lots of stuff added, nothing removed, maybe some beta content), and good new games (by actually listening to the fans for once, or even just hiring some guy at minimum wage to spend a few hours testing their games and find the obvious flaws).
They tried that out with Shadow, remember?
As far as I'm concerned, Sega is a perfect example of a smart business. It lures customers in with good products, and then little by little makes them worse, but not so much that people stop buying them alltogether. Then, it appeals to a younger market, cutting out its original fanbase, who still buy the products in the hope of finding a diamond in the rough. The younger market continues to buy all products having to do with the brand name, and the older market limits its spending to select products. Then, Sega shells out low-quality and easy to produce products that resemble the original, appealing to the awkward middle ground between its two userbases, eventually selling both out for an even younger demographic. This continues until the inevitable meteor strike.
"But I'll still get '06 and Secret Rings anyways".
From a business standpoint, Sega is a genius. From a personal standpoint, they're ruthless.
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No, they didn't. Well, I guess they did... sort of, if you mean putting in a popular character,
changing the attitude, and fixing the rail-switching... but I've heard the controls are overall
just as bad as ever, and the game is just as flawed as Heroes or anything else.
I mean, like getting someone to just come in and say, "I didn't like Heroes because the
controls were really bad and because the team thing was a dumb gimmick." It's that simple.
And it's not cleverness. I see what you mean- it could be clever, but it isn't in this case.
They're making changes in an attempt to make the series better.
It would've cost them less time and money to make all the games more like Sonic Adventure.
(I mean, they wouldn't be fixing its flaws, but they'd be making money, and at least they
wouldn't be introducing new flaws or making the existing ones worse.)
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Bomberman Act Zero is a GOOD GAME. There is literally nothing wrong with it.
No. You are wrong. I can say that with absolute certainty despite never having even laid eyes on the thing, simply because everyone hates it (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/929921.asp).
Ok but you're a tool you know that.
There's one 70% "ok this game is tolerable" review out of *37*. Games with nothing wrong are not universally hated.
Seriously, man.
It's not universally hated, there are people who like it, I play this game online, with cool people, they know this game isn't terrible. And it's not.
Most reviewers aren't very smart, you can't seriously take Gamerankings and make a decision on a game /without even having played it/.
It's easy to take a 7.0 game and bump it down to 3.0 out of a tilt to bombard the game as harshly as humanly possible because of the redesign that nobody seems to 'get'.
It's all about the redesign, it's all a knee jerk reaction, sensationalist retardation and lack of thinking. The perception that the franchise is somehow selling out when it's really not. It's a total lack of perspective. Previous Bomberman games in the classic style were much worse but nobody cared at all. Wtf is with shit like Bomberman Jetters. We pretend to be content that the franchise is shackled to its old look and a future of mediocrity, but when it changes and makes a shockingly focused and polished entry to a next gen console, some people freak out. Because
they're
STUPID
That's all it is.
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But it won't matter. Thousands of angry Sonic fans signed petitions to get rid of the 4Kids actors, but did anything happen? No. Those games were very successful (at least in sales).
SEGA can do one stupid thing after another, but people will still buy their games,
either because there's no choice, or because they're kids who want the games because
they have "characters from sonic x" in them. But I agree that... how do I describe it?...
it kind of feels good to bash badly-made games and do extreme and even ridiculous things about them, even if few people know (like my plans to redo some of Riders's acting).
It's not so much that it feels good to bash it, as that it would feel bad to go along with it. Ultimately, sure, it doesn't matter to SEGA specifically whether I make an angry post on the front page or not. But the kind of malfeasance that leads to my angry posts on the front page also leads to a general wave of angry (or plain dismissive) posts across the Internet, and it is that kind of general bad will that has led to SEGA's demise in other areas in the past and in the long run will lead to the demise of whatever it infects in their corporation. The 4kids voice acting, the shoddy ports, the generally unfinished games, and entirely misguided atmosphere all are aspects of a malaise that while not individually recognized by most still inexorably lead to the single impression that Sonic is simply not worth considering.
But to get back to the initial point - I created TSC as a hub to foster competition and generally encourage appreciation and longevity of the Sonic games. To direct the work I've spent on the site towards fostering interest in such a terrible, lackluster game seems to me a destructive act, and I refuse to engage in it, not because I want to hurt Sega but because I don't want to encourage people wasting their time on crap when there is stuff out there that realizes the "vision" (if you could call it that) of that game so much better.
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Bomberman Act Zero is a GOOD GAME. There is literally nothing wrong with it.
No. You are wrong. I can say that with absolute certainty despite never having even laid eyes on the thing, simply because everyone hates it (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages4/929921.asp).
Ok but you're a tool you know that.
There's one 70% "ok this game is tolerable" review out of *37*. Games with nothing wrong are not universally hated.
Seriously, man.
It's not universally hated, there are people who like it, I play this game online, with cool people, they know this game isn't terrible. And it's not.
Most reviewers aren't very smart, you can't seriously take Gamerankings and make a decision on a game /without even having played it/.
It's easy to take a 7.0 game and bump it down to 3.0 out of a tilt to bombard the game as harshly as humanly possible because of the redesign that nobody seems to 'get'.
It's all about the redesign, it's all a knee jerk reaction, sensationalist retardation and lack of thinking. The perception that the franchise is somehow selling out when it's really not. It's a total lack of perspective. Previous Bomberman games in the classic style were much worse but nobody cared at all. Wtf is with shit like Bomberman Jetters. We pretend to be content that the franchise is shackled to its old look and a future of mediocrity, but when it changes and makes a shockingly focused and polished entry to a next gen console, some people freak out. Because
they're
STUPID
That's all it is.
Wrong. This is nothing to do with changing the franchise, or the look, or anything else. It's about the fact that it's a comparitively poor game, and by comparitively I don't mean against other Bomberman games, I mean against the other games currently in direct competition with it. You can't defend a game that's worse than a whole raft of others on the shelf by saying "Oh well, it's better than it's predecessor".
I've played it, and you're right, it's not terrible; it's mediocre. There are reams of better games out there, and I for one am not going to waste time with it it just because it's a Bomberman game. Nothing to do with franchises, selling out or any of that crap; there are better games to spend my time and money on.
It's also amusing that you generalise game reviewers as being stupid simply for having the opposite reaction to you. I mean, that's why you're a game reviewer, right? Owait. Also calling Rolk a tool when he responded to your force-fed opinion of "there's literally nothing wrong with it" hardly helps your point. He didn't say "I don't like this game", he said "how can there be nothing wrong when so many people dislike it".
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You know, egg, any time your argument requires you to assume that you alone are smart and levelheaded and everyone else is stupid and illogical, that's a good sign you need to re-evaluate your stance.
Of course the people who PLAY it with you don't think it's terrible. You'd be pretty stupid to keep playing a game you hated, eh?
Man, this discussion is lol.
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It's not so much that it feels good to bash it, as that it would feel bad to go along with it. Ultimately, sure, it doesn't matter to SEGA specifically whether I make an angry post on the front page or not. But the kind of malfeasance that leads to my angry posts on the front page also leads to a general wave of angry (or plain dismissive) posts across the Internet, and it is that kind of general bad will that has led to SEGA's demise in other areas in the past and in the long run will lead to the demise of whatever it infects in their corporation. The 4kids voice acting, the shoddy ports, the generally unfinished games, and entirely misguided atmosphere all are aspects of a malaise that while not individually recognized by most still inexorably lead to the single impression that Sonic is simply not worth considering.
But to get back to the initial point - I created TSC as a hub to foster competition and generally encourage appreciation and longevity of the Sonic games. To direct the work I've spent on the site towards fostering interest in such a terrible, lackluster game seems to me a destructive act, and I refuse to engage in it, not because I want to hurt Sega but because I don't want to encourage people wasting their time on crap when there is stuff out there that realizes the "vision" (if you could call it that) of that game so much better.
Okay. Yeah, that's true, except about the overall low opinion of Sonic.
This has existed for a while, but SEGA doesn't seem to be getting hurt by it much.
Reviewers can complain, sites like TSC can avoid supporting it,
and the Sonic games can be generally considered garbage, but the games still sell.
But I understand what you mean about not supporting the extremely terrible games/ports/remakes.
As most of you might know already, I got Sonic Riders just over a week ago.
It was my choice, and I felt just a bit bad about doing my part to support it and increase the sales.
But like I said, I can't do anything. SEGA won't notice one sale. They wouldn't care if they
lost thousands of sales. I know that sounds dumb (if everyone did that, the sales wouldn't drop at all),
but it really seems like nothing can be done. So all I can do now is try to do my share of
complaining (like you said about the general opinion on the internet), or, though few people know,
refuse to listen to most of the bad acting and voices. Or I could get a job in Sonic Team. :P
(You'd notice the difference if that happened, whether I became a tester, programmer,
designer, producer... pretty much any job that could affect the gameplay or glitches.)
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Or I could get a job in Sonic Team. :P
(You'd notice the difference if that happened, whether I became a tester, programmer,
designer, producer... pretty much any job that could affect the gameplay or glitches.)
Yeah, that would be cool. All the series needs to get back to its former glory are some competent people who are talented Sonic players themselves actually making them. With SM doing programming, Marth on beta testing, and others making game ideas and concepts, it would a good era for Sonic games. Even I have some cool ideas for Sonic games, such as a RPG game with a Tales of Symphonia style battle system and Sonic style dungeons designed to make the game (and its combat) fast and fun, and a Sonic/Mega Man fusion spin off posted in an old thread in the General Sonic section. (SJ and sonicam would probably get the most enjoyment out of it though.)
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Yeah, that would be cool. All the series needs to get back to its former glory are some competent people who are talented Sonic players themselves actually making them. With SM doing programming, Marth on beta testing, and others making game ideas and concepts, it would a good era for Sonic games. Even I have some cool ideas for Sonic games, such as a RPG game with a Tales of Symphonia style battle system and Sonic style dungeons designed to make the game (and its combat) fast and fun, and a Sonic/Mega Man fusion spin off posted in an old thread in the General Sonic section. (SJ and sonicam would probably get the most enjoyment out of it though.)
For the series to get back to its former glory, SEGA would just have to open their ears for a minute.
If we started working there... this would be Sonic at his best. (Okay, maybe that's a bit much...
or is it? It would take some simple changes to make huge differences and create something better than SA.)
So it's settled. It can be as you said, and I can help occasionally with general supervision and random ideas.
And if I can get Robotnik's voice right (with a little practice), a bit of acting with that.
Now... let's go to SEGA headquarters and demand that they hire us!!!!! :P
(Really, it is frustrating. This would be for their good, but I somehow don't think they'd just
hire some Sonic fans who walk in, no matter how good they seemed to be at designing games.)
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I didn't know you guys had programming experience and whatnot.
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"You guys"? If you mean SM, I don't know. You'll have to ask him what he's done in game programming.
As for me, I don't do programming, but I have done graphics and level design and stuff.
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SM is really knowlegable about computers and other technical stuff in general. I wouldn't be surprised if he does know/understand at least one type of programing language. For me, ideas and conceptual things is the thing I'm best at. When I try to come up with some idea for a game (no, I don't work in the game industry, thus these are merely ideas), I try to think of a way to make it as fun as possible to play. (After all, fun is the most important thing.)
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I program, but I'm too busy working on my own game (which pwns) to clear up Sonic Team's mess (which doesn't pwn).
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^^ Lol. Made me smirk.