The Sonic Center
Welcome Center => Information Kiosk => Non-Sonic Site Discussion => Topic started by: magnum12 on October 15, 2006, 12:30:36 am
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Magnum raises a good point here. Let's have a debate on the pros and cons of a number of similar issues.
In this category fall the following:
* Team Blast Glitch
* Freeze-game-clock glitches
* Doublespeed Duration
* Going through walls (whether nonexistent, or by zipping)
* Others that don't come to mind right now (somebody help me out with these)
Now the reason these can be grouped into one category, is because they are all abuses of the game's programming, in different ways.
The one thing that distinguishes TSC from other competition sites, for mine, is that if the game allows you to do it, it's allowed. (I think this is a direct quote from SM? confirm/deny?) The one exception to this point in time has been Doublespeed Duration, and I imagine that is due to its stacking ability.
On issues like this, there is no middle ground. Either you can abuse it to your heart's content, or it's completely disallowed. As it stands, DD is disallowed, while TBG runs rampant. Personally, before we decide on whether the "point of no return" has been breached we need the views of sonicam and eredani. But until then I consider it to be in the same category of glitches as anything else that abuses a programming error, and therefore the same ruling should be applicable to all. If that means unbanning DD, so be it.
-I understand your arguement and agree that there should be no middle ground, but I feel like it didn't answer my question. Glitch A (permanent time freeze) is more powerful/abusive than glitch B (DD) yet glitch A is allowed but not glitch B. Why?
-At least this debate is giving me some advice on how to deal with issues with TMC when TSC4 is born. I'm planning on finding as many potential issues with games before establishing competitions as part of "sheathed sword" tactics refered to by sirlin's articles. The universal rule for all games will be no glitches are allowed as part of "sheathed sword" ways of preventing balance problems between versions (if any) and to insure no double standard complaints. This should not be a problem since MM games are relatively clean when it comes to bugs. Most of the rules will focus on banning of super exploitable things that are intentionally in the games, such as dark chips, forms with infinite Giga Attack/similar moves, fusion elves, etc. that sonicam, Psyborg, and myself all agreed would turn competitions into a joke. BTW, if you're there Psyborg, have you discovered anything that would be as abusive as Dark Chips in MMBN6 yet?
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I've got some stuff for what TMC will be like.
http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=1590.0
http://www.soniccenter.org/forum/index.php?topic=1444.45
These two links to other topics provide attachments as to the basic structure of TMC (early doc based prototype). The first link has the latest build of the site, a guide designed to make playing the Zero series a little less painful for new players, and a weakness chart for the Battle Network series. The second link has the TMC competition charts (including one revised by sonicam, which is the latest version of it, along with weakness guides for the classic and X series. Note: I'm thinking of adding an Ultimate Zero division to the MMZ2, 3, and 4 games as exceptions to competition rules for those games. (No cyber elves in Z1 and Z2 and no fusion elves in Z3).
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The only thing that caught my eye on the proto doc was that NES MM2 on normal is not the same as easy on MMAC MM2. Easy on MMAC MM2 just gives you more defense and more health/ammo pops up, while NES MM2's normal reduces RM's denfense to be able to kill them faster. Playing on Difficult is the equivalent to playing on Normal in MMAC MM2.
Also are there any other guides for little tips tricks with the classic series/MMX games? I wont b able to get into the MMZ series myself until I get my DS one of these days.
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The only thing that caught my eye on the proto doc was that NES MM2 on normal is not the same as easy on MMAC MM2. Easy on MMAC MM2 just gives you more defense and more health/ammo pops up, while NES MM2's normal reduces RM's denfense to be able to kill them faster. Playing on Difficult is the equivalent to playing on Normal in MMAC MM2.
Also are there any other guides for little tips tricks with the classic series/MMX games? I wont b able to get into the MMZ series myself until I get my DS one of these days.
Really? I thought the only difference in MM2 between difficulties was boss defense power. (Unless I was thinking of the NES version at the time.) I'll revise the document to reflect that.
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I'll try to find out the weaknesses of mini bosses. I think my weakness guides cover wily/sigma fortress bosses.
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You have a lot of say in things SJ, you're records are excellent, your scores are omg and I thought that I used to specialize in that. The only reason why you aren't champion is because your boss times are terrible. If you do bosses, you're champ, simple as that.
Hmm, I know some weaknesses for some of the Sigma fortress bosses.
For X:
Spider Boss (Sigma 1): Shotgun Ice
Face boss thing (Sigma 2): Chameleon Sting
Truck boss thing (Sigma 3): Boomerang Cutter
Sigma's dog (Sigma 4): Shotgun Ice/X-Buster
Sigma: Electric Spark
Final Sigma: Rolling Shield
X2:
Violen: Bubble Splash
Serges: Silk Shot
Agile: Magnet Mine
Zero: X-Buster IIRC
Sigma: Not sure
Neo Sigma: Not sure
X3:
No idea. ;/
For the rest of the games I don't like Special Weapons at all so I never use them, I'm not sure of enemy weaknesses.
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Here's some of the weaknesses straight from memory. (They're all in the guide in the second link.)
X2
Zero: I think you can also use the splash damage from the speed burner.
Sigma: Sonic Slicer
Neo Sigma: Strike Chain
X3 (going off of memories here,)
Doppler: Acid Burst
Sigma: (1st) Crush Claw
Kaiser Sigma: None
X4
Colonel: Frost Tower (dangerous to use if not used properly, you want to drop it on his head from afar).
Double: Double Cyclone
General: Twin Slasher (weak attack power)
Death Sigma: Rising Fire
Sigma (2nd): Lightning Web
Giant Head Sigma: Ground Hunter (Can't remember name of Stingray's weapon right now)
Gun using Sigma: Soul Body.
X5:
X: Ground Blazer
Rangda Banga 2: (Varies with target)
Sigma (1st): Volt Kraken's weapon.
Sigma (2nd): Tidal Whale's weapon.
X8:
Vile: Drift Diamond. Knock him off of his mech with Green Spinner.
Sigma: Shadow Runner
Devil Sigma: Shinning Ray
Lumine (1st): Varies, depends on ultimate attack used. Only some of them provide openings.
Lumine (2nd): None
MM2
Dragon: Quick Boomerang
Wall things: Bubble Lead
Guts Tank: Quick Boomerang
Wall Sentries: Crash Bombs
Wily's space ship: Crash Bombs (save for second form)
Alien: Bubble Lead
MM3
Turtle Machine: Shadow Blade
Yellow Devil: Hard Knuckle
Fake Mega Men: Search Snake
Crab Tank (1st): Spark Shot
Crab Tank (2nd): Shadow Blade (most reliable)
Gamma (1st): Hard Knuckle
Gamma (2nd): Search Snake or Top Spin (instant kill if done right).
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This topic is for everything TMC related.
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Sorry. I made a topic specifically for TMC, so the off topic stuff here can be moved there if wanted. Any way, back on topic. In all seriousness, we should have dealt with this back in summer of 2004 before it became too ambiguous in regards to records. Maybe this time we'll end the discussion once and for all.
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BOOM.
Man, I haven't thought about this in ages. I should really get back into MMBN sometime later.
Um... I like MMBN?
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Its good you're here. I have a question about BN6 for potential rulings. Is there anything that might need banning due to being too abusive? (Like dark chips.)
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Also, I'm rather confused on what the divisions are going to for for Battle Network games. Is it just going to be Boss Battles? As for the earlier games, will we just use Version 3 Navi battles, or will we make seperate divisions for all 3 Versions.
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Do you guys want me to move the MM-related stuff from other topics in here, or leave them as-is?
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It'd be great if you can move them, I was trying to do it myself, but I don't have mod powers.
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Version 3? You're not counting the "omega"/SP versions, I believe. And yeah, it's pretty much just bosses. That's all that's really time-attackable.
As for my ruling on Dark chips, I'm considering freestyle options at the moment, but I don't have an "official" ruling as of now.
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Yea, I forgot about them, but they are one time only bosses (referring to MMBN3, I only know much about 1-3).
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I don't think competitions for Mega Man ZX are viable. The new mission structure doesn't work well for it. However, discussions about the game should be in the MMZ General Forums. It's a great game, but asides from the Omega secret boss fight (cooler than the Z3 version) and the final level, it wasn't very challenging.
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Ah thanks sonicam! my goal from when I go back into SH was scores only, but a few are tough for me still (mainly Rose). then I dabbled in TAing and got that far with it. And yeah my boss times really suck (really really really really really...)
Also thanks for the list...I still gotta get myself X8 (not getting X7) one of these days and I hardly play X5 and 6, but for X2 and 4 was really helpful.
One more thing too, anyone know if the 2nd mini-boss in Magna Centipede's stage (MMX2) has a weakness? Thats the only one I cant figure out. Also will the Hadoken and Shoryuken be legal for competition? *I have to look at the charts for this*
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No prob SJ, just don't beat me too badly, lol.. ^_^;
Zero competition from the PS2 games will be from me... :(
Hmm, you mean that robot that gets powers from your scans? Hmm, I have no idea if he has a weakness, but I'm thinking Bubble Splash for some reason, but I have no idea.
Hadoken and Shoryuken should be banned. Freestyle it?
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Ah yes... I ignored 1-3 :O
Yeah, in 1-3 it will be v3 bosses... in 4-6 it will be SP bosses, as they are the ones that are found in the wild and are really the dudes to time attack.
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Oh, ok. Also, there are time attack Navi battles to fight in the Secret Area in MMBN3, but the catch is, you have to use an Extra Folder... ;o Just incase you guys forgot about that or just don't play 3 much. Perhaps that can be a division, if we haven't already thought of it...?
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I completely forgot about those moves. They should not be allowed, although I personally found their use impratical in a heated battle.
-Edit: I conducted some research for MMX8 competitions. It seems that the game stops the clock when you reach the final room of the level and ignores how long you take to defeat bosses. However, the no infinite Giga attack form rule still applies because the 2nd to last stage assumes the 8 bosses are part of the time it takes to reach the end.
-Experimental evidence for above conclusions. 1. The first time I cleared Giga Bolt Man O War's stage (the flying bike chase stage), my time was less than 2 minutes. Apparently the game only took into account the time it took to damage him enough to trigger the boss fight.
2. Curious about this observation, I had my little brother play thorough Burn Rooster's stage as fast as he could, a stage I know is one of the longest in the game. He beat the boss and did the post stage escape, (something that should have taken a grand total time of at least 10 minutes) but ended up with a time of about 6 minutes, which is about 30-60 seconds slower than what I get for this stage, once again suggesting that the game stops the clock when you reach the lair of the boss.
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-Sorry for the double post, but this is very important. The near final builds for TMMC (Assuming Mario Center gets the TMC abbreveation) site prototype and competition charts are finished. The new prototype expands on site's competition rules to account for new games to compete in. The charts have undergone a massive expansion. I've just added ultimate divisions for Zero 1-3 (don't know how we're going to enforce anything with Zero 4 due to its reworked cyber elf system), Battle Network 1-6 sections, Maverick Hunter X charts (the game doesn't track times), and charts for Mega Man Powered Up (not only does this game track times and scores, it is also more diverse in terms of competition divisions than Sonic Adventure 2). I still don't know how we're going to deal with games that don't track times, but I've got a temporary back-up solution in which we initially only implement games that track time. (Discussion is needed.) Even with that, we still have 20 (21?) games that we can have competitions for right away.
-I'd like to know what you all think. When everything's good to go, all that needs to be done is for these (and my .doc format guides) to be sent to Rolken for the final conversion to web site format and TMMC will officially be born.
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I should note that I still don't intend to get subsites up until TSC4. The F-Zero folk I'm allowing early because their community is in its death throes and I'm doing all the work manually, but I don't have the bandwidth to manually set up and administer 5 sites on TSC3 while still trying to finish TSC4. :(
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Take your time. I wasn't trying to rush you, I was trying to get as much stuff with the proto types ready for everyone to see (and for as much feed back as possible for the sake of fixing all potential problems), then wait until TSC4 is ready before submitting the final prototype. :)
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Take your time Rolk, don't get overwhelmed.
magnum: Hmm, MegaMan 1 scores I think should be scrapped. I mean, enemies are very easy to duplicate and I dunno, just seems silly and IIRC, the score bonus at the end of a boss is random, so just makes it worse. If Powered Up has a much more balanced and logical Score count, then just use Powered Up scores. I haven't played Powered Up yet due to no PSP.
Regarding the MMBN rules, this means that for Battle Network 3 that the Omega versions must be used since they are the strongest versions of the Navis, but they are only fought once. I'd say make a divisions for V3 Navis and Omega versions, or scrap Omegas, because I'm sure no one wants to restart their games. Also, for MMBN3, you forgot MistMan.
Seems like Battle Network only has Boss Divisions, how about game completion (one for obtaining the Yellow Star [main story beaten and this time is shown to you at the end] and one for acquiring 100% [maybe?]).
Yes, having all of these games probably isn't a good idea since a good portion of them require manual timing and that's incredibly questionable and the alternative would be to vid all the runs (NES/SNES emus) and mods can time them, but that's too time consuming and no way I'll have to patience and time to do that. ;X Maybe scrap all games/divisions that don't track records in any way?
For MMZ 1 and 2, what's Ultimate Zero? Is it Ultimate Mode?
There are some other things that I can't think of right now... ;/
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Ultimate Zero is Ultimate Mode. Powered Up's score system is much more balanced. From what I've played, boss battles are always worth the same amount. In addition, time bonuses are given out on a percent modifier to the boss section of scoring. The addition of the game completion times for BN is a great idea.
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Ah, ok, calling it Ultimate Zero is misleading. I was thinking it's a code or something, like Black Zero.
Oh, ok, then we should just use Powered Up instead of MM1.
How about the Omegas and V3 problem? What do you think about that? Also, I stated before that there is a Time Attack area in the Secret areas in MMBN3 where you are forced to fight using your Extra Folder (a preset folder that you cannot modify). Seperate division for that, or redundancy?
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The newest versions of the prototype site stuff are ready. For the charts, I've added game completions, extra folder mode, added Mist Man, changed the wording in MMZ to Ultimate Mode, moved the challeneges in MMPU to be in the extra sections, and cut out all games that don't record times, resulting in much cleaner charts. For the site prototype, I've cut out all games that were cut in the charts and reworked the BN rules so the strongest form of a boss that can be fought multiple times is the standard (final and secret bosses are an exception).
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Hmm, Extra Folder Mode? It's not a mode, it's just where you battle Navis with only the extra folder in the Secret Area. Do you remember it? It's when you speak to the Navi ghosts and they tell you your current record for "so and so" and ask you if you want to battle again. It would be a seperate division for the Navis (I think they are V3 Navis, not too sure). Division could be 'Extra' I guess.
Grave Beast? Isn't it only called Grave in the anime. Let's stick to Gospel. Actually, come to think of it, you are never told of your time when you defeat the final bosses, I know that's true for the Life Virus, Gospel, Alpha and Duo, and I doubt for Fake Bass in MMNB2.
It's JapanMan in MMBN3, not YamatoMan. It's going to cause confusion.
Hmm, I'll get you the Legends stuff soon since that's missing. It's not much since there aren't any "levels". Well, for Legends 1, it's:
Game Completion: Easy, Normal, Hard
Races: Course D, Course C, Course B, Course A.
For the races, I'm not entirely sure, if that's the amount of races, I'll look into it when I can.
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what about full gameplay runs?
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Hmm, yes, 100% completion runs are missing, but there needs to be guidelines for all the games.
X5: Acquisition of all 8 stage Heart Tanks (excluding Hearts earned by bosses), 3 SubTanks, 1 EX Tank, all forms obtained (excluding Ultimate X/Black Zero), and completing the game. Parts is a problem since you are never able to obtain all the parts in one playthrough, there are 16 parts in all, yet you can obtain a maximum of only 8 and doing so defeats the purpose of a speed run, so exclude parts. Thoughts?
X6: Same as above, but obtaining all the Reploids. Maxxing out Souls? I'm thinking and hoping no. ;x
X7: ???
X8: ???
MMBN1: 1000 HPs and 100% chips (200 chips?).
MMBN2: 1000 HPs, 250 chips (excluding the secret Gospel chips), 50 MB, HubStyle obtained (?????) / All 5 stars.
MMBN2 Hard Mode (I forgot about this): Same as above??
MMBN3: This game is a problem since it comes in versions and there are Navis not present in each version. Blue has Punk and BowlMan and White has MistMan. All 7 stars?
MMBN4-6: ???
MMZ series: What would you consider 100%? All Elves?
Power Battles/Fighters: N/A
Powered Up: ???
What's also missing is the S-Rank speedruns for the Zero series. I dunno if you ruled that out cuz of redundancy. If so, let me know.
For the X series, there are problems however for what divisions they would be. When I made charts for Cyberscore, like forever ago, it was broken up into the difficulty levels as well as character I think, but that's just too much. What do you think we should do about this? Like, what I mean is should we have a division for Xtreme mode - Zero alone - Game completion, Xtreme Mode - X alone - Game completion, Xtreme Mode - Any combination - Game completion. See how there are going to be a lot of divisions for the game? It's going to get annoying playing the same game over and over to get all the stats in. Maybe we should make a fine line for number of divisions. I'm still kinda on the fence on what to do. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Another problem with MMBN is that there are chips and thus stars that require link play. If you don't have anyone willing to speed through battles with you waiting for chips, this could be a problem and you have to be able to battle link play in order to get MMBN2 Hard Mode. What should we do here?
EDIT 2: lol, good thing Rolk didn't keep what he said true, that TSC4 and the new centers would come pretty soon over the last few months or we'd be in trouble. :D Let's use this time wisely.
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Hmm, yes, 100% completion runs are missing, but there needs to be guidelines for all the games.
X5: Acquisition of all 8 stage Heart Tanks (excluding Hearts earned by bosses), 3 SubTanks, 1 EX Tank, all forms obtained (excluding Ultimate X/Black Zero), and completing the game. Parts is a problem since you are never able to obtain all the parts in one playthrough, there are 16 parts in all, yet you can obtain a maximum of only 8 and doing so defeats the purpose of a speed run, so exclude parts. Thoughts?
X6: Same as above, but obtaining all the Reploids. Maxxing out Souls? I'm thinking and hoping no. ;x
X7: ???
X8: ???
MMBN1: 1000 HPs and 100% chips (200 chips?).
MMBN2: 1000 HPs, 250 chips (excluding the secret Gospel chips), 50 MB, HubStyle obtained (?????) / All 5 stars.
MMBN2 Hard Mode (I forgot about this): Same as above??
MMBN3: This game is a problem since it comes in versions and there are Navis not present in each version. Blue has Punk and BowlMan and White has MistMan. All 7 stars?
MMBN4-6: ???
MMZ series: What would you consider 100%? All Elves?
Power Battles/Fighters: N/A
Powered Up: ???
What's also missing is the S-Rank speedruns for the Zero series. I dunno if you ruled that out cuz of redundancy. If so, let me know.
For the X series, there are problems however for what divisions they would be. When I made charts for Cyberscore, like forever ago, it was broken up into the difficulty levels as well as character I think, but that's just too much. What do you think we should do about this? Like, what I mean is should we have a division for Xtreme mode - Zero alone - Game completion, Xtreme Mode - X alone - Game completion, Xtreme Mode - Any combination - Game completion. See how there are going to be a lot of divisions for the game? It's going to get annoying playing the same game over and over to get all the stats in. Maybe we should make a fine line for number of divisions. I'm still kinda on the fence on what to do. What do you guys think?
EDIT: Another problem with MMBN is that there are chips and thus stars that require link play. If you don't have anyone willing to speed through battles with you waiting for chips, this could be a problem and you have to be able to battle link play in order to get MMBN2 Hard Mode. What should we do here?
EDIT 2: lol, good thing Rolk didn't keep what he said true, that TSC4 and the new centers would come pretty soon over the last few months or we'd be in trouble. :D Let's use this time wisely.
-For X8, full completions is all parts, all the unique chips purchased (for all 6 playable characters), and unlocking all 3 unique character forms. You have to play the game twice in order to get them all since Zero's final weapon requires completing Normal mode to unlock hard mode which is needed to get the weapon. I'd say finding all the elves is a 100% completion of the Zero games.
-In regards to difficulties, I agree that having so many based on difficulty would annoy players greatly in terms of submitting all of the stats. I think just having normal mode is a good idea for player convienence and for a uniform standard that's easy to enforce.
-I didn't include S ranked Zero runs because they would be very hard to verify without a video. However, I personally think the idea's great, especially for informal contests like the one frequently done in TSC the forums.
-I haven't thought of anything for the other issues yet.
-I forgot Legends had stuff for competition. That's great since it brings our number of availible games up to 22 (compared to TSC's 26).
- I was thinking of adding the mini games from Zero 3, but I'll need to do some more research on them first.
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What do you think of the Battle Network stuff?
Also, yea, more Legends stuff soon, also, it can be 23 if we include The Misadventures of Tron Bonne. I'll do some research on that game as well.
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Full completions of games should be better left to SDA. We're not about that.
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Hmm, yea, I guess that's a good point, but a lot of MegaMan games usually give you a time at the end when you finish the game at the "Thank you for playing" screen, Sonic doesn't do that so we don't track those, but if you guys are against it, then ok.
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I'm for full gameplay runs if they track time. 100%, 0%, any %...doesn't matter to me.
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If the game tracks it, I say its worth recording (unless it becomes too difficult to verify). In regards to BN, I'm not sure if I can make a good judgement call about some of the issues since I'm a fish out of water when it comes to that series. (Where is our BN expert when we need him?)
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I don't think he's an expert on this issue, I think he cares most about the newer Battle Networks and me just the opposite, but I can't think of what to do.
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Ok, sorry for the double post but I got some more information for Legends.
MegaMan Legends
Game Completion (Times): Easy, Normal, Hard (there is significant differences between difficulties)
Races (Races): Straight Course, Left Curve Course and Technical Course. (all must be done on A difficulty)
Mini-Games: Balloon Fantasy (Times), Beast Hunter (Scores) [all must be done on A difficulty].
Legends 2, I can only think of Game Completions, there are minigames but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
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Hmm, yea, I guess that's a good point, but a lot of MegaMan games usually give you a time at the end when you finish the game at the "Thank you for playing" screen, Sonic doesn't do that so we don't track those, but if you guys are against it, then ok.
Oh, right. I wasn't aware of that.
In that case it's fair game. (I demand this be set as a precedent for Sonic the Fighters. :D)
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I'm not really an absolute expert on deck building in 4-6 or anything, but I sure know a lot about the games and could do well if I tried hard enough.
aaaaanyway.
4: pretty much getting to Black Earth 2 and beating bass SP with all chips possible for that version.
4.5: This game can sort of have a "complete run". First off, you'd have to max all of the characters' stats (very, very, very unlikely), get EVERY chip (insanely difficult), and... well... that'd be it. I guess you could beat all of the bosses or something, but actually having a "complete run" of the game would mean you either hacked or just wasted your whole life on this one game.
5: see info for 4, replace Black Earth 2 with Nebula Area 6.
6: Falzar SP/Gregar SP destroyed. This would be so because doing that requires you to pretty much complete the game anyway.
Anyway, yeah, so yeah, um yeah. That's all.
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Since TUSC is trying to find out who would be interested in competing, I'd also like to ask who would be interested in TAing Mega Man games (asides from myself, sonicam, Psyborg, and Shadow Jacky) at TMMC when it begins. Speaking of which, I need to incorporate the stuff from legends and game completion divisions for the X and Zero games into the charts.
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if anyone is interested, SDA has 2 runs of MM: Powered Up.
http://speeddemosarchive.com/mmPoweredUp.html
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I just updated the charts for Legends, added the completions and did an overhaul of Powered Up to add in Roll, Proto Man and the 10 different boss attack challenges. I'll post the new chart soon (up to version 1.5). I also pulled off a sub 1 minute time for Guts Man's level (Old Style).
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this may not even happen, but would using The Wily Wars for MM1-3 be counted for?
I played the rom of it and just playing some stages were some differences already, but it felt kinda clunky and also the mega buster is crap towards robot masters when starting fresh (took way too long to kill Flash Man with it).
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As promised, here's the new charts. I'll post an updated weakness guide for the classic MM series, the original MMX series weakness guide, and the MMZ beginner's guide later.
-In regards to Wily Wars, does it keep track of times/scores/etc.? How many shots did it take to destroy Flash Man? In the hard mode, it (I think) should take about 14 shots with the buster to take him out.
-Edit: Update for the Zero series. You may not use Cyber Elves. On the subject of MMZ, I just realized something important. In missions where you are supposed to destroy certain objects/ rescue people/ hit switches, you can get a fast time by skipping the mission entirely. Should we allow that or should we require that you fully complete such missions?
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maybe this should be revived since its under this board now.
TMMC needs recognition if its going to succeed.
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I'm still uncertain about the MMZ issue, but I'm leaning towards a ruling that states: "In missions that are applicable, you must resuce all hostages, destroy all targets, etc." I'll need come comments from those who play the Zero series. (This applies to several missions in Zero 2 and 1 mission in Zero 3 that I can think off right now.)
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I say you should only do it if you have too.
the only one that comes to mind is that one mission in Z1 where you have to save everyone before fighting Maha Garansheriff (or however you spell it)
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So how are you guys coming along? You still have a couple of things to iron out?
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We're coming along pretty nicely. We recently decided to ban cyber elves because of their game breaking effects (especally ones that cut boss health down). The only issue left to settle is the following: In some stages in the Mega Man Zero series, there are missions in which you're supposed to destroy certain targets, rescue hostages, press switches, etc. It is possible to pass the goal and kill the boss without actually doing the mission, which costs you points in the mission part of your score and defeats the point of the level. The question is if we should allow mission skipping or require that you take out all the targets?
-Missions Affected: (From memory)
--Mega Man Zero 2:
1. Forest of Dysis (Hyleg Ourobockle)
2. Computer Zone (Poler Kamrous)
3. Power Room (Phoenix Magnion)
--Mega Man Zero 3:
1. Childre Inarabitta
--Mega Man Zero 4:
1. Artificial Sun
2. Airconditioned Park (Pegasolta Ekrehl)
-There are no affected stages in Z1. The hostages one is Blizzard Stageroff. Phantom has a mission with similar mandatory mechanics IIRC.
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3. Power Room (Phoenix Magnion)
I thought you had to destroy all of those generators to even fight him...
1. Childre Inarabitta
is this the only one where it actually affects the stage? I find it easier if you didn't lower the lower.
I still say to skip the missions if you can, they are only good for ranks.
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I disagree with that. We already made charts for MMZ, we said that one would be Time Attacking (any Rank) and other would be S-Ranking (TAing but you must have an S Rank/ 95-100 points total since MMZ2 uses an averaging system). Since in order to get an S-Rank, just about all objectives would have to be done to get the full 20 Mission Objective points. All in all:
Time Attack: Rush through the stage as fast as possible, only concern is defeating the boss/ getting Mission Complete.
S-Rank: Abide to Mission Objectives, don't get hit a lot, no Elves, etc.
EDIT: Heh, ok, I just saw SJ's new post. :x Yes, I agree with him.
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It seems the last issue has been settled. On a side note, I think sub 2:50-2:40 in the Copy X stage (MMZ3) is possible. I got 3:08 with a relatively cautious run through the stage and boss (mostly the boss, I was slightly cautious in the stage). Would have been much more aggressive if I had a sub tank on that file. Probably should have used the boomerang instead of the gun as my secondary weapon. I personally find attack type B controls to be the most reliable for speed running since you can store multiple charges at once.
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-Now that the guidelines for management are up, we have to come up with an idea for the skin. I was thinking of something like this: An image of classic Mega Man, classic Proto Man, Bass EXE (not really different from original Bass), X, Zero (MMX form), Harpuia (ZX form), and Phantom (MMZ form) bursting out of a fiery explosion with a screen shot of an iconic Mega Man stage in the background. I'd like to hear your inputs for a good site skin idea.
-This just in. Mega Man ZX Advent has just been announced. This game takes place several years after ZX. The human forms can actually fight this time. The central bio metal this time is Model A who fights with two guns (cough, Axel) and has a special homing attack similar to a 2D version of E-102 Gamma's missiles. You will be able to absorb the DNA of bosses you kill (yet again, one of Axel's powers). So far, I've seen a flaming deer and an ice turtle.
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-an evolutionary chart of megaman himself from the NES days to now....if thats possible due to the different games and timelines
-guardian skin with Copy X at his throne and the guardians bowing before him (I also seen this sweet pic of the remaining guardians bowing to the real X after the events of Z4)
-a pic of the inside of Dr. Light's house with Dr. Light, Megaman, Roll, Auto, Eddie, Rush, Beat, and Protoman (how odd that would be for him to be there), either posing for a pic or acting naturally
I got a bunch that I can think of, but I wouldn't be able to make them myself as I dont know how.
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I like the evolutionary progress idea. Has potential for some clever stuff. Here's the way I see it.
1987 (Awful box art)-->1989 (Classic Mega Man)-->1994 (X)-->1996? (3D Mega Man)-->2000 (Mega Man EXE)--> 2002 (Zero)-->2006 (Model X).
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Congrats on becoming established guys. All the best to ya.'
edit: Question: Did Rolken set you guys up to become established. Did he do all the conversion stuff or did you guys have to do that yourself? I'm really stuck in a bind as I'm ready to launch my sub-site but I really don't know how to go about doing that, really...
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We got set up to be established. We're looking for more members here at TMMC. Anyone want to join us? We're getting bored with just 4 people (I haven't been able to compete that much with the very last few weeks of school coming up and graduations myself) around.
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If I had access to the games you guys have up Id probably give it a shot for kicks
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I believe there are things called ROMs and Emulators that can be found on...
Google.
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I do believe I am well acqauinted with them but I am too lazy to go search ok
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BAM (http://www.megaman.net/roms.html)
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Oh hey thats groovy
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I'd say the best place to start when getting MM games to compete in would be to search amazon.com or a local EB Games, Game Crazy, Game Stop, etc. In terms of what games to start with, I recommend Mega Man X Collection (get X5, X6, and Battle & Chase). In terms of being TA friendly, X8 is probably the best in that regard. The Zero series is also really good for time attacking, but I strongly suggest getting some experience with the X series first since the Zero series can be brutally challenging (that series was designed with the hardened veterans of the MM franchise in mind). However, IMO, the Zero series in terms of gameplay and fun is the best bet (along with Mega Man Powered Up) in terms of what games are availible for competition.
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I only have the MMX Collection but maybe I can get into X5 and 6 once my head stops feeling dizzy because of that damned hay fever. Too bad X4 doesn't record times...
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BAM (http://www.megaman.net/roms.html)
Upon closer inspection that site would be considerably moe groovy if it wasnt like "USE THE OLD ROMS PAGE THIS NEW ONE ISNT DONE YET" then upon clicking the provided link to the old roms page it didnt just tak you to the exact same page your already one. >:/
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BAM (http://www.megaman.net/roms.html)
Upon closer inspection that site would be considerably moe groovy if it wasnt like "USE THE OLD ROMS PAGE THIS NEW ONE ISNT DONE YET" then upon clicking the provided link to the old roms page it didnt just tak you to the exact same page your already one. >:/
In the time it takes you to write a complaint about a random link you could've found a better link. <_<
Other than that I don't know what to do about it since I don't hang out there nor do run the site. :P
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I had gotten MMX1-3 (for viewing TAS runs) and Rockman and Forte from romnation.net
For the Zero series I had gotten from some people at Luelinks.net >_> (if you know of the place...it has its uses)
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Since its less than 30 days old, I can still post in this thread. There's some things we need to obtain before we can fully finish.
1. Admin powers to delete stuff.
2. The chat room
3. A skin (last thing on our minds).
-On a side note, if any one has some friends who are Mega Man fans, please tell them about this sub site.