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Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I


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Offline Thorn

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If you haven't heard yet, tonight at midnight Pacific Standard Time (for reference: 3am on the U.S. East Coast, 8am Greenwich time) we'll have more Needlemouse info. The fact that the publicity will be covered by GameSpot suggests something bigger than the concept art we've received so far. This front-page post will be replaced with details when the time comes... or well after the time comes, if I fall asleep before 3am and another admin doesn't update it. :P


The registered http://sonicthehedgehog4.com redirects to the game's site and is now open, and has all of the info from GameSpot plus countdowns to new information reveals. If you want to hear the jingle revealed on February 2nd, the Japanese Sonic 4 site plays it. The logo above was taken from the Japanese site by Sonic Retro user celebi23.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 09:47:15 pm by Thorn »
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Offline P.P.A.

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2010, 03:32:34 am »
Lost interest.
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Offline Aitamen

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2010, 03:36:48 am »
angered by lies, still not fully given up hope... SU was somewhat playable, at least, maybe SEGA can do well?
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Offline werster

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2010, 04:04:07 am »
It looks...ugly. Really ugly. And the change from running in S3 to walking in this, within the trailer, was almost an insult to the game. And I really don't like that it looks more like Sadv then genesis. But whatever, I still like sonic and would enjoy playing this game. And this is almost exactly as i expected. So yeah <_<

Offline EngiNerd

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2010, 08:56:49 am »
And I'm going to be the first one here who's literally THRILLED at this o.o
I'm sorry, this has my hopes up big time, this currently looks like one of the best decisions Sega's made in YEARS.
Also ... Sonic 1-type special stages hinted at.  WIN

EDIT:
The website (under character information) HEAVILY implies that the storyline is a direct continuation from Sonic & Knuckles ... therefore strongly suggesting that no existing characters other than Sonic/Tails/Amy/Knuckles/Eggman will appear.  Just figured I'd point this out.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2010, 11:08:54 am by EngiNerd »
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Offline magnum12

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2010, 12:54:08 am »
The website (under character information) HEAVILY implies that the storyline is a direct continuation from Sonic & Knuckles ... therefore strongly suggesting that no existing characters other than Sonic/Tails/Amy/Knuckles/Eggman will appear.  Just figured I'd point this out.

If what you're saying is true, then we might get some plot elements that fill the gap between S&K and SA.
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Offline Luxray

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2010, 12:56:18 am »
^ Like how humans come into the story? >_>
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Offline Parax

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2010, 01:01:56 am »
personally.. it looks like it might be good, dunno, the look of the game reminds me much more of Rush/Advance than of the classics. It was just a couple seconds though, I want to see more about how the game actually plays to make a judgment on it rather than SONIC RUNNING REALLY FAST BECAUSE IT'S EYE-CATCHING. And even then for just 3 seconds. Although the unrevealed concept art on the site makes me think of more classic-style gameplay, so who knows, maybe it actually will be similar to them in gameplay at the least.

Also, Sonic might be using his post-SA design but he resembles classic Sonic a lot more than he has otherwise, recently. Also that running animation is total crap (as were most of the animations in the video) and I hope they fix that before release.

Offline Crowbar

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2010, 03:33:48 pm »
Every single worry that has been expressed about this will turn out to be true, and all the hopes will either not materialise at all or will be drowned under all the mediocrity.

I will even quote this post after I've been proven right.

Offline Thorn

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2010, 03:51:18 pm »
^ Okay then, let's make a list of "every single worry" that you can reference when the time comes. A quick collective of most of the negative things that I've heard on various forums:

* The lack of new badniks means that the game will suck.
* The lack of new badniks means no new bosses, either.
* Homing Attack will contradict all promises of momentum-based gameplay.
* Homing Attack will feel out of place in a 2D game.
* Homing Attack will allow for a Jump Dash that will make gaining speed much too easy and make Spin Dashing pointless.
* Sonic's model being a slight tweak of his Unleashed model means that the game will suck.
* Sonic's appearance on the logo means that the game will suck.
* Sonic's model having green eyes means that the game will suck.
* Sonic's running animation sucks, so the game will suck. This is already proven wrong: the animation in the trailer is not the fastest, according to SEGA PR, and the full-speed animation will be more like the classic ones. Nevertheless, people made a stink about it, so it's in the list.
* Physics seem a bit strange in the three seconds of gameplay footage.
* The corkscrew that disappears early in the three seconds of gameplay footage is just one of many such glitches.
* There must be a bottomless pit under the corkscrew bridge in the footage, so all level designs will be similar.
* There won't be more than two paths running at a time.
* The fact that the graphics are New Super Mario Bros. style instead of Mega Man 9 style means that the game will suck.
* The fact that Sonic Team has to put a 2D game on a modern console at all means that the franchise will die.
* The locked character on http://sonicthehedgehog4.com is actually a new playable character that will drag down the game, even after we were told explicitly otherwise by SEGA.
* This game only has one character, so it will suck.
* The promises of momentum-based gameplay are lies.
* The Episodes of the game will be too short to be worth playing more than a few times.
* The storyline will be overly dramatic like with all recent Sonic games.
* Super Sonic won't be playable in all levels, so the game will suck.
* The music we've heard of the game sucks, so all of the music in the game will suck.
* It's just plain impossible to live up to the epicness expected of the name "Sonic the Hedgehog 4", so the game will suck.
* The name "Eggman" is used in the English localizations despite the English localizations of Sonic 1, 2, and 3 & Knuckles using "Dr. Ivo Robotnik", so the game can't possibly pretend to be classic.

I'm interested to see how close your statement comes, for better or worse. If anybody else can think of other complaints that have been made that I've forgotten, edit it onto the end of the list if you can or reply with it otherwise.

EDIT: More on the list... PPA's concerns are being listed separately since he believes that the ones listed so far are "negligible, nitpicking and hasty" and that his aren't.

* It's entirely soulless and lacks inspiration, innovation, and identity, as shown in the concept art of the flower and the tree as well as the video.
* The graphics looks like someone resurrected G Sonic/Sonic Blast in Flash.
* SEGA still doesn't "get" the old games.
* Iizuka is making the game.
* The Motobug redesign is not only hideous but even inconsistent with the style of that touched up S2 MZ crab badnik, proving the incompetence of the art direction.
* Why would SEGA after a decade of utter failures suddenly make something that does not suck? They didn't even manage to ever reach the hollow and mediocre but at least decent level of Sonic Advance again!  (Although admittedly Rivals went into that direction again before Iizuka came in and declared it would have to be a racing game.)
* They will warm up a few old and spent ideas to try and create what will, assuming it avoids being a catastrophe, be no more than a pale shadow of the old Sonic games. See #1.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 04:46:01 pm by Thorn »
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Offline magnum12

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2010, 04:23:02 pm »

* The lack of new badniks means that the game will suck.
* The lack of new badniks means no new bosses, either.
* Sonic's model being a slight tweak of his Unleashed model means that the game will suck.
* Sonic's appearance on the logo means that the game will suck.
* Sonic's model having green eyes means that the game will suck.
* The fact that the graphics are New Super Mario Bros. style instead of Mega Man 9 style means that the game will suck.
* The fact that Sonic Team has to put a 2D game on a modern console at all means that the franchise will die.
* The locked character on http://sonicthehedgehog4.com is actually a new playable character that will drag down the game, even after we were told explicitly otherwise by SEGA.
* Super Sonic won't be playable in all levels, so the game will suck.
* The music we've heard of the game sucks, so all of the music in the game will suck.

21 problems. Of these, I left the problems that sound really stupid. I HAVE CHORTLES!!!! As a NIS-head, I rofl at just how superficial and shallow the Sonic fan base is.
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Offline Aitamen

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2010, 04:33:21 pm »
I have yet to say the game will suck.  Even with what disappointments I've had, this looks, already, to be better than EVERYTHING SEGA HAS DONE SINCE SONIC WENT 3D.

yes, I'm annoyed at him having his new model, yes, the sound is iffy, and sure, the homing attack might be horrible in this game...  but there's no boost, so it's better than SU/SR (others too, I'd assume), and there's no goddamn fishing levels!

not a bad start, SEGA... let's see what you do.
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Offline Crowbar

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2010, 06:19:34 pm »
Excellent. Your efforts will not go to waste, Thorn.

Offline Stefan

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 07:34:33 pm »
You forgot:

"The fact that it's called Sonic 4 means it will suck"

Thorn EDIT:
* It's just plain impossible to live up to the epicness expected of the name "Sonic the Hedgehog 4", so the game will suck.

Already mentioned, read harder!

Ok how about:

"The music sucks. Music was the atmosphere of sonic. The game will thus suck."

Ok how about:

"Every game in the classic sonic series introduced new character types. This game will suck because it goes backwards"
« Last Edit: February 05, 2010, 07:39:57 pm by Stefan »

Offline Crowbar

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2010, 07:59:00 pm »
"The music sucks. Music was the atmosphere of sonic. The game will thus suck."

Also already mentioned.

Other one isn't, though.

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2010, 03:32:43 am »
My expectations (not "worries", as I don't doubt that they will come true) concerning the game's failure are as follows:

  • It's entirely soulless and lacks inspiration, innovation, and identity, as shown in the concept art of the flower and the tree as well as the video.
  • The graphics looks like someone resurrected G Sonic/Sonic Blast in Flash.
  • SEGA still doesn't "get" the old games.
  • Iizuka is making the game.
  • The Motobug redesign is not only hideous but even inconsistent with the style of that touched up S2 MZ crab badnik, proving the incompetence of the art direction.
  • Why would SEGA after a decade of utter failures suddenly make something that does not suck? They didn't even manage to ever reach the hollow and mediocre but at least decent level of Sonic Advance again!
    (Although admittedly Rivals went into that direction again before Iizuka came in and declared it would have to be a racing game.)
  • They will warm up a few old and spent ideas to try and create what will, assuming it avoids being a catastrophe, be no more than a pale shadow of the old Sonic games. See #1.

I'm amused by Thorn listing all the negligible nitpicking and hasty conclusions from over at lolRetro to make it seem as though such minor things were the only concerns thus trying to shed the sceptics in a bad light, while leaving out more serious worries.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 03:39:43 am by P.P.A. »
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Offline Taillow

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2010, 09:34:29 am »
* The music we've heard of the game sucks, so all of the music in the game will suck.
People think we heard music for the game?  BLASPHEMY!

Well to be fair the trailer music could be in the game.  I just highly doubt it since it seems to be unveiling mood music more than anything.
Hi

Offline oldskoolgamer101

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2010, 09:35:07 am »
We're on a very similar page about this PPA, as we always have been. You echo my thoughts about the Advance series - similar formula to the originals, but hollow in look, sound and feel (the original was the closest to a success overall imo). "Sonic 4" looks worse again, dodgy art style, disgraceful animation, and as you say a lack of inspiration and -identity-. Each Sonic game on the MD changed up the art style at least to a degree, but each managed to pull it off in an appealing way, you never felt like you weren't playing a Sonic game. Sonic CD upped the trippy meter but pulled it off beautifully.

Also on the nitpicking point, as far as I'm concerned the shitload of usual things people have a crack at about the series these days add up. The green eyes, the ordinary running animation, the fucked up modern "streamlined" look, every little detail you look to to pick up on that Sonic feel achieves the opposite. The second I look at his ridiculous face on the TSC homepage, it's not Sonic to me. My care factor about the series is low as fuck now; if this game doesn't at least end up reasonable I'll consider it as dead as Atari; here only in name.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 09:45:26 am by oldskoolgamer101 »

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2010, 11:48:03 am »
* The music we've heard of the game sucks, so all of the music in the game will suck.
People think we heard music for the game?  BLASPHEMY!

Well to be fair the trailer music could be in the game.  I just highly doubt it since it seems to be unveiling mood music more than anything.
http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicTheHedgehog4/
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Offline Taillow

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2010, 12:00:03 pm »
* The music we've heard of the game sucks, so all of the music in the game will suck.
People think we heard music for the game?  BLASPHEMY!

Well to be fair the trailer music could be in the game.  I just highly doubt it since it seems to be unveiling mood music more than anything.
http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicTheHedgehog4/
Darned Japanese site hoarding the music >_>

Dunno if they'll use that one either but it's much more likely.
Hi

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2010, 12:07:33 pm »
* The music we've heard of the game sucks, so all of the music in the game will suck.
People think we heard music for the game?  BLASPHEMY!

Well to be fair the trailer music could be in the game.  I just highly doubt it since it seems to be unveiling mood music more than anything.
http://sonic.sega.jp/SonicTheHedgehog4/
Darned Japanese site hoarding the music >_>

Dunno if they'll use that one either but it's much more likely.
I hope thy don't. Using such a Mega Drive sounding music when the game does not look like a game from the console at all and not even like an evolution of one seems just off. (Not to mention this is a very lame tune.)
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Offline Thorn

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2010, 12:39:40 pm »
My expectations (not "worries", as I don't doubt that they will come true) concerning the game's failure are as follows:

  • It's entirely soulless and lacks inspiration, innovation, and identity, as shown in the concept art of the flower and the tree as well as the video.
  • The graphics looks like someone resurrected G Sonic/Sonic Blast in Flash.
  • SEGA still doesn't "get" the old games.
  • Iizuka is making the game.
  • The Motobug redesign is not only hideous but even inconsistent with the style of that touched up S2 MZ crab badnik, proving the incompetence of the art direction.
  • Why would SEGA after a decade of utter failures suddenly make something that does not suck? They didn't even manage to ever reach the hollow and mediocre but at least decent level of Sonic Advance again!
    (Although admittedly Rivals went into that direction again before Iizuka came in and declared it would have to be a racing game.)
  • They will warm up a few old and spent ideas to try and create what will, assuming it avoids being a catastrophe, be no more than a pale shadow of the old Sonic games. See #1.

I'm amused by Thorn listing all the negligible nitpicking and hasty conclusions from over at lolRetro to make it seem as though such minor things were the only concerns thus trying to shed the sceptics in a bad light, while leaving out more serious worries.

I'm amused by you thinking your concerns are any more relevant. Every point you made rests on:
1. Clearly all of the same people that worked on shit one year are working on it the next. These people's views of a good game are set in stone and unable to change, so the shitstorm will continue ad infinitum.
2. I don't like the art direction, so clearly nobody can like it.

I'm also amused that you think I was making it out that these were the only concerns. In case you haven't noticed, it was largely a joke list of the more ridiculous concerns expressed to make it impossible for Crowbar's prediction to come true. I am even farther amused by your belief that only Sonic Retro is talking like this. I'd say more, but I have two feet of snow to shovel through, so... yeah.
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Offline P.P.A.

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2010, 12:47:18 pm »
My expectations (not "worries", as I don't doubt that they will come true) concerning the game's failure are as follows:

  • It's entirely soulless and lacks inspiration, innovation, and identity, as shown in the concept art of the flower and the tree as well as the video.
  • The graphics looks like someone resurrected G Sonic/Sonic Blast in Flash.
  • SEGA still doesn't "get" the old games.
  • Iizuka is making the game.
  • The Motobug redesign is not only hideous but even inconsistent with the style of that touched up S2 MZ crab badnik, proving the incompetence of the art direction.
  • Why would SEGA after a decade of utter failures suddenly make something that does not suck? They didn't even manage to ever reach the hollow and mediocre but at least decent level of Sonic Advance again!
    (Although admittedly Rivals went into that direction again before Iizuka came in and declared it would have to be a racing game.)
  • They will warm up a few old and spent ideas to try and create what will, assuming it avoids being a catastrophe, be no more than a pale shadow of the old Sonic games. See #1.

I'm amused by Thorn listing all the negligible nitpicking and hasty conclusions from over at lolRetro to make it seem as though such minor things were the only concerns thus trying to shed the sceptics in a bad light, while leaving out more serious worries.

I'm amused by you thinking your concerns are any more relevant. Every point you made rests on:
1. Clearly all of the same people that worked on shit one year are working on it the next. These people's views of a good game are set in stone and unable to change, so the shitstorm will continue ad infinitum.
2. I don't like the art direction, so clearly nobody can like it.

I'm also amused that you think I was making it out that these were the only concerns. In case you haven't noticed, it was largely a joke list of the more ridiculous concerns expressed to make it impossible for Crowbar's prediction to come true. I am even farther amused by your belief that only Sonic Retro is talking like this. I'd say more, but I have two feet of snow to shovel through, so... yeah.
1. Many different teams have worked on Sonic games in the past dozen of years, from Dimps over SoA to Backbone and whoever else. None of them have delivered satisfying products, and Iizuka who has in the past screwed up many a game is also back, making it unlikely that this will be any different. Unless they made AM2 make a Sonic game I guess, but that's quite unlikely.
2. I never said that I wouldn't like it (although I don't), I pointed out that it's generic and lacks a unique personality. I don't think to see that is dependent on taste.
3. I thought it was more of a sarcastic argument against critics than a joke, seeing how fiercely you defend the game at the moment.
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Offline Parax

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2010, 12:54:36 pm »
I'm amused that everyone seems to think that 2-3 seconds of footage from a beta version of the game is enough to decide that it's going to suck

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2010, 01:07:45 pm »
I'm amused that everyone seems to think that 2-3 seconds of footage from a beta version of the game is enough to decide that it's going to suck
It's not. But twelve years of mediocrity, disappointment and failure is.
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Offline Thorn

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2010, 01:27:53 pm »
^ If you've been disappointed with the series for twelve years, it's hard for me to imagine that you'd be hanging in Sonic communitites. I can only assume that there's something you continually like about the series, because there's no other reason you'd continue to return to this supposed abuse.
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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2010, 03:09:23 pm »
i wake up this morning

i open my browser

i see this

what the hell is this

it doesn't even try to be innovative

it's just a picture of the specific sonic that has kidnapped good sonic games for the past 4 years and is all like HEYYYYY STAR WARS ON THE FIRST THREE GAMES!!! ISNT THAT A GREAT IDEA

no.

Offline P.P.A.

Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2010, 04:06:10 pm »
^ If you've been disappointed with the series for twelve years, it's hard for me to imagine that you'd be hanging in Sonic communitites. I can only assume that there's something you continually like about the series, because there's no other reason you'd continue to return to this supposed abuse.
I stick around because of the people. TSC I'm barely active again now that a large part of it has left and me having abducted a few of the cooler people into my own channel, but for example The GHZ I still enjoy being a part of due to the colourful people and the wonderful sarcasm and cynicism.

There used to be a thread of hope held together by the fond memories of some older games in the series and a bit of fun with some more recent entries which were just mediocre but avoided being complete disasters, Sonic Rivals for example. By now I've even given up on that as well though. /me shrugs.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 04:11:19 pm by P.P.A. »
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Offline Thorn

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Re: Project Needlemouse "Midnight" Reveal: Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I
« Reply #29 on: February 18, 2010, 11:09:11 am »
I've also been disappointed in Sonic games since forever (my angst goes back more than the 12 years PPA mentioned), and I'm still around.

I just love Sonic 2 that much.  I enjoy finding new ways to break it and make it cry for all those times I fell through walls and floors >_>

The classics keep me around, as does the community.

So no, the newer games, and the series, do not keep me around at all (hell, aside from SAdva, I've played SA1 a little bit and.... riders?)

I just loves TSC ^_^
Year 33 — The Malkavians claim that their greatest practical joke happened during this year, when they perform a bit of graverobbing  in Jerusalem.
-- Vampire: The Masquerade

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