Speed Highway bells


Poll

How many rings from the bells should be allowed? (read topic)

15
7 (46.7%)
25
2 (13.3%)
0
5 (33.3%)
5
1 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 14

    Print

Author Topic: Speed Highway bells  (Read 11885 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline F-Man

Speed Highway bells
« on: January 01, 2006, 04:32:02 PM »
In Speed Highway, there are two bells that when hit give you rings. The first time you hit it gives 5 rings, then 4, then 3, 2 and finally 1. However, going out of a bell's range makes all of its rings reappear, giving an opportunity for infinite rings/score.

Now a new rule was established today by SM, which reads "In Speed Highway, any bell that generates rings upon being hit can't be hit more than five times, or your total doesn't count." However this doesn't specify that you can't get out of range and come back so that you get 5 rings every time, because SM is fine with that.

Well I'm not. First, the best reason is because that's just not how you're supposed to use the bells. They were programmed to give a maximum of 15 rings, and by giving you a maximum of time to hit it when submitting rings/score, we might as well tell you to do it the right way, as giving a limit of 5 but while still being allowed to "cheat" makes even the limit look and seem useless.

Second, it's just less of a pain in the ass. I wouldn't want to go away and come back five times instead of just use the bell the way it's meant to. Of course this is not a reason I would care about if the right way was the opposite, but it's not.

Some people probably think "hey, it's much easier to just forbid using the bells completely, or limit their use to one hit". I do not think so. It is also very simple to just use them correctly. Saying this is like saying "hey we should forbid using rings generated from switches all together" or even something completely out of complex of these tricks like "hey we should forbid item boxes completely".

So what do you think?
(Tip: vote 15)

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2006, 04:46:56 PM »
Well, yeah, 15, I guess.
soniham is Taco's greatest typo.:o

CF is very... CFy.

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2006, 05:06:22 PM »
Why is 25 even an option? There's clearly no logical reason to limit it 25. My vote goes to 15, yes, I agree that using the bells until the rings are deprived of and never use that bell in the same ring run again should be the rule, but it's too easy to cheat on since it's infinite unless someone knows all the maximum ring amount that's in the level. So my vote really goes to 15 and 0, agh, I dunno. It's hard to say.

Regarding the infinite switches, messing up can cause one's ring run to be void say someone charges a spindash on the switch and collects more than one of the same ring or one losses focus of the spindash and has to restart. I know that an elitist wouldn't do so (I'm sure effy would say, omg, only a n00b would do that), but for the common gamer, these things happen. I dunno what to do about these either. :/
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline F-Man

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2006, 05:34:53 PM »
Quote
Why is 25 even an option? There's clearly no logical reason to limit it 25.
[snapback]8545[/snapback]
That's what SM wants to be allowed. By maximizing the hits on each bell to 5, you can hit it once, get 5 rings, go out of its range, come back and hit it again to  get 5 more rings, and repeat until 25 rings. (5 hit with 5 rings each)

That is exactly what I disagree with, and hope a lot of people also do.

Offline yse

  • Thrower of Gauntlets
  • Architect emeritus
  • TSC: mike89
  • win10 chrome
  • Posts: 1723
  • Constitutions written: 1 and counting
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2006, 06:05:28 PM »
Come to think of it, this probably isn't the worst idea I've ever heard. I've been against ring/score on Speed Highway existing at all for a long while, because some idiot is almost guaranteed to submit ring counts whereupon the bells are abused.

However, we've also seen 200+ rings on Wild Canyon posted, and there's been a rule in place there for ages. That alerts me to the fact that some other levels have similar restrictions, and therefore Speed Highway should have this restriction on it. My vote goes to 0, and here is the new rule I would enact:

Ring Divisions
If you collect any ring coming from a bell in Speed Highway, your total does not count.

I'm not quite sure what to do about Twinkle Park and Lost World though, because you certainly can't stop people from hitting switches a first time. Perhaps the best option is thus:

Ring Divisions
If you hit any switch more than once in Twinkle Park or Lost World, your total does not count.

Thoughts?

<3 Thorn.

Offline SadisticMystic

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2006, 08:24:38 PM »
Collecting rings from bells is not cheating; neither is digging up rings as Knuckles for that matter.  It does, however, give rise to a procedure that can be repeated an arbitrary number of times, allowing for a ring total that has no upper boundary apart from the byte cap.  This is undesirable, of course.

Some limit needs to be placed on repetitions in order for the chart to be brought back.  Using consecutive hits on the bell and not running away, it stops giving rings after the 5th hit, so I used that 5 count as the most reasonable benchmark for a cutoff.  This rule was intentionally created to say nothing about what can happen in between those hits, so that optimal use of your 5 can give you an extra 10 rings over straightforward attacking all at once, but so that there's still a limit (not specified explicitly by the rule, but it can be 25 instead of 15).

The 15-ring limit comes about by placing a restriction not on the procedure but on the results thereof; "if you do it this way you can hit the bell 5 times but if you do it a different way you can only use 3"?  I'd rather avoid shifting the limiting factor to that end where possible.

The alternative is to choose a number where it doesn't matter whether you count on procedure or results, as the number would be chosen so those would be equivalent.  There are two choices for a hit limit that fit the description in this case: 0 and 1.  Of these, 1-hit would at least acknowledge the bells' mechanical presence as a source of rings.  Pointing out that digging rings are also present mechanically could be a case for 0-hit, but I see a distinction in that the rings given off by a bell hit are completely predictable, unlike the random payoffs from digging, so that it can still be allowed and restricted at the procedural level.  Following the precedent of infinitely repeatable, yet predictable, actions such as S3K Act 1 signposts and the Launch Base alarms, placing the cutoff at one repetition seems like a reasonable thing to do, and would let each bell count for 5 rings.

In descending order, my preferences for the limit to be imposed are 5 hits, 1 hit, 0 hits, and 15 rings.

Quote
I'm not quite sure what to do about Twinkle Park and Lost World though, because you certainly can't stop people from hitting switches a first time. Perhaps the best option is thus:

Ring Divisions
If you hit any switch more than once in Twinkle Park or Lost World, your total does not count.

I didn't make the rule that way because it generates both false negatives and false positives.  You can stand on a switch while carrying a Lightning Shield, let the rings get sucked in and constantly reappear (or, possibly if the first ring spawns close enough to the switch, you might be able to stand on a point such that the switch remains held down and you also cover up and grab that ring even without the shield, as is possible in the Station Square hotel), and still claim that you only hit the switch once.  On the other hand, imagine you're preparing for that part in Lost World, and charge a light attack near the switch.  All those energy balls fly around you, and some of them will run into the switch thereby pressing it down.  You might hear the sound of the switch multiple times, and if you do, then technically speaking that run would be disqualified--clearly not something that's supposed to happen.

I've made the rule in a way that I believe stops everything that shouldn't be done and nothing more: once you get any of the rings from a switch, you can't generate any more rings from it.  Is there anything that needs to be improved from that?

Offline yse

  • Thrower of Gauntlets
  • Architect emeritus
  • TSC: mike89
  • win10 chrome
  • Posts: 1723
  • Constitutions written: 1 and counting
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2006, 08:33:53 PM »
Quote
I've made the rule in a way that I believe stops everything that shouldn't be done and nothing more: once you get any of the rings from a switch, you can't generate any more rings from it. Is there anything that needs to be improved from that?

Ah, I didn't see that there was actually a rule already in place for those.

In it's current state it's probably the best possible solution.

<3 Thorn.

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2006, 09:17:03 PM »
Yeah, SM, that's what I meant about that the switch thing in my last post. Human error is a major factor when Ring Attacking infinite ring switch levels. I think it's best to keep those levels out. About the byte caps and that other math talk, I still think it's best to deprive the bell of it's rings and then move on, not allowing that bell to be used in that same ring run. If you miss some of the rings then too bad. D:

EDIT: To sum up, I think that:

Bell Stages: Deprive each bell of it's rings only once per ring run.
Ring Switch Stages: Keep removed from the rankings.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2006, 09:18:13 PM by sonicam »
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline F-Man

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2006, 10:42:13 PM »
Quote
The alternative is to choose a number where it doesn't matter whether you count on procedure or results, as the number would be chosen so those would be equivalent.  There are two choices for a hit limit that fit the description in this case: 0 and 1.  Of these, 1-hit would at least acknowledge the bells' mechanical presence as a source of rings.
[snapback]8549[/snapback]
Why wouldn't using the bells the way they're meant to a good enough way to aknowledge the bell as a source of rings? The way I see it is that, by using a "trick" to get 5 rings every time, you are using exactly the same trick that could be used to get infinite rings, so I don't know why anyone would think about allowing it at first. Not to mention that then giving it a limit of 5 has no meaning. Yes, you did decide 5 because that's the normal number of hits it can give you rings, but let me emphasize, it's the number of hits the normal way (15 rings) allows you to use to get rings. The "trick" is different in that it can be used infinite times and should just stay far away from everyone's mind!

I don't like the idea of disallowing the bells because they were placed in the level exactly to give rings in a quite original way. It even has a set number of hits already all predetermined for you, so why would you guys hate those poor bells and how they made themselves so clear about how they should be used to get rings so much? Bells have feelings too, you know.

As for the ring switches, I have no complaint. I think it's perfect right now. :) Removing the levels would just be sad IMO because they're great levels and don't deserve to be cut off just because they got some tiny switches. Levels have feeli-*shot*

Offline yse

  • Thrower of Gauntlets
  • Architect emeritus
  • TSC: mike89
  • win10 chrome
  • Posts: 1723
  • Constitutions written: 1 and counting
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2006, 02:45:54 AM »
Quote
The way I see it is that, by using a "trick" to get 5 rings every time, you are using exactly the same trick that could be used to get infinite rings, so I don't know why anyone would think about allowing it at first.
[snapback]8554[/snapback]

I can't agree with this more. That's exactly why I take the stance I do.

If you impose a 5-hit rule, the way the bells are used is impossible to police (and frankly irrelevant, what with all the random ring boxes).

If you, however, suggest that only 15 rings may be collected from any given bell, you immediately give away what you're trying to hold back. That way more people that we don't want to know about this will know, and abuse it even though the rules tell them not to. We don't want that, do we?

And I'm with sonicam on Lost World/Twinkle Park. Just get rid of them, for the reasons SM brought up.

(And this includes score too, before anyone forgets.)

<3 Thorn.

Offline CosmicFalcon

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2006, 04:59:23 AM »
About the bells!

The 15, 5 and 0 ring limits are pointless. Putting an arbitrary cap like that on is as silly as SCD's 3-2-1 scoring method for VS games. Ok not silly, and not pointless, but rather... I don't know how to say it, but you know what I mean.

The 25 ring limit, as SM said, requires something more than just hitting the bell. As this is a skillful use of game mechanics, it should be allowed. Remember, in City Escape score, hitting cars isn't disallowed, though it provides an arbitrarily high score. A time limit was set on score attack runs, though. The 25 limit may, amongst those who better know the game, provide the exact same effect as 15, 5 and 0, but then there will be other players who don't know it so well who will think they are great for getting 15 rings from every bell, as if no one else can do that. It adds layers to the competition or something I dunno.
"A graph of cf's coolness as age increases would be exponential." - Stefan [14:26, 2008/08/23]
"I now realise that CF is complete and utter win." - Cruizer [13:46, 2009/10/23]

Offline yse

  • Thrower of Gauntlets
  • Architect emeritus
  • TSC: mike89
  • win10 chrome
  • Posts: 1723
  • Constitutions written: 1 and counting
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2006, 06:55:16 AM »
This entire debate has led me to consider the entire rules being streamlined.

SM, F-Man, CF and myself have all come up with various precedents to justify our positions on the matter. If we can all come up with precedents to justify different views, then surely something is wrong!

We need to maintain consistency or newbies are gonna get bloody confused.

<3 Thorn.

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2006, 08:49:09 AM »
CF: I don't understand you stance about the bells. You say that limiting each bell to 25 requires skill? I don't see how getting 25 is more skill worthy than depriving the 15 rings the bell is supposed to give.

mike: Yes, I agree, newbies are going to get confused on this matter and rules deciding and with all these different rules being implemented, I think it's going to turn off some competitors too. :(
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline CosmicFalcon

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2006, 01:32:50 PM »
Ok new stance! If bells cause so much confusion, b&hammer them.
"A graph of cf's coolness as age increases would be exponential." - Stefan [14:26, 2008/08/23]
"I now realise that CF is complete and utter win." - Cruizer [13:46, 2009/10/23]

Offline F-Man

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2006, 05:21:30 PM »
Quote
If you, however, suggest that only 15 rings may be collected from any given bell, you immediately give away what you're trying to hold back. That way more people that we don't want to know about this will know, and abuse it even though the rules tell them not to. We don't want that, do we?
[snapback]8555[/snapback]
That's like the same for every rule, like Knuckles' no digging, and the no speed shoes twice in 14 seconds thing (though I don't know how that benefits, just like I wouldn't know how to benefit more than 15 rings from the bells if it wasn't for Marths post some time ago). We just have to trust them not to break the rules, and if they do... it may be possible to know it, like for example by getting too much rings/too high score (btw sonichero submitted 310 rings for tails windy valley while you can't get more than 264 lol).
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 11:41:02 AM by F-Man »

Offline magnum12

  • Awesome Overlord of TMMC
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • winvista msie9
  • Posts: 1184
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2006, 08:44:27 PM »
Quote
Quote
If you, however, suggest that only 15 rings may be collected from any given bell, you immediately give away what you're trying to hold back. That way more people that we don't want to know about this will know, and abuse it even though the rules tell them not to. We don't want that, do we?
[snapback]8555[/snapback]
That's like the same for every rule, like Knuckles' no digging, and the no speed shoes twice in 14 seconds thing (though I don't know how that benefits, just like I wouldn't know how to benefit more than 15 rings from the bells if it wasn't for Marths post some time ago). We just have to trust them not to break the rules, and if they do... it may be possible to know it, like for example by getting too much rings/too high score (btw sonichero submitted 310 rings for tails windy valley while you can't get more than 241 lol).
[snapback]8569[/snapback]
IIRC, there is a bug involving collecting speed boots within the 14 second time that messed up a character's base speed. (Sadistic Mystic should have a guide somewhere that mentions this.)
Ever know what its like to get pwned by a book? Sonic certainly does.

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2006, 09:38:17 PM »
Yeah, it's DD, double dash or something... >.> If you collect one Speed Shoe item and then collect another before your first one ends, your speed levels up again (higher than your first speed shoe) and then after 14 secs when it wares off, you'll revert back down one level, which is one speed shoe powerup and you'll have that till you die IIRC. I think it's different between SADX and SA2B, meh.
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline yse

  • Thrower of Gauntlets
  • Architect emeritus
  • TSC: mike89
  • win10 chrome
  • Posts: 1723
  • Constitutions written: 1 and counting
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2006, 06:29:43 AM »
Turns out that the "bell trick" also applies to Casinopolis' slot machines in the main area, which is immaterial for Sonic anyway but allows Knuckles to cash in (which sonicam has already demonstrated).

Looks as though the same rule needs to be applied here.

<3 Thorn.

Offline CosmicFalcon

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2006, 08:06:46 AM »
Quote
Yeah, it's DD, double dash or something... >.> If you collect one Speed Shoe item and then collect another before your first one ends, your speed levels up again (higher than your first speed shoe) and then after 14 secs when it wares off, you'll revert back down one level, which is one speed shoe powerup and you'll have that till you die IIRC. I think it's different between SADX and SA2B, meh.
[snapback]8583[/snapback]

'Doublespeed Duration', a somewhat arbitrary name. When you pick up the second speedshoes, it activates all the start-doublespeed events. However, as it interrupted the first, that one never ends, even when the second one goes through the end-doublespeed events. It's a bit like have two open brackets and one close bracket.
"A graph of cf's coolness as age increases would be exponential." - Stefan [14:26, 2008/08/23]
"I now realise that CF is complete and utter win." - Cruizer [13:46, 2009/10/23]

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2006, 03:21:01 PM »
Quote
Quote
Yeah, it's DD, double dash or something... >.> If you collect one Speed Shoe item and then collect another before your first one ends, your speed levels up again (higher than your first speed shoe) and then after 14 secs when it wares off, you'll revert back down one level, which is one speed shoe powerup and you'll have that till you die IIRC. I think it's different between SADX and SA2B, meh.
[snapback]8583[/snapback]

'Doublespeed Duration', a somewhat arbitrary name. When you pick up the second speedshoes, it activates all the start-doublespeed events. However, as it interrupted the first, that one never ends, even when the second one goes through the end-doublespeed events. It's a bit like have two open brackets and one close bracket.
[snapback]8585[/snapback]

That's what I said. Only thing that was wrong was the name of the event...
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline CosmicFalcon

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2006, 05:13:16 PM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
Yeah, it's DD, double dash or something... >.> If you collect one Speed Shoe item and then collect another before your first one ends, your speed levels up again (higher than your first speed shoe) and then after 14 secs when it wares off, you'll revert back down one level, which is one speed shoe powerup and you'll have that till you die IIRC. I think it's different between SADX and SA2B, meh.
[snapback]8583[/snapback]

'Doublespeed Duration', a somewhat arbitrary name. When you pick up the second speedshoes, it activates all the start-doublespeed events. However, as it interrupted the first, that one never ends, even when the second one goes through the end-doublespeed events. It's a bit like have two open brackets and one close bracket.
[snapback]8585[/snapback]

That's what I said. Only thing that was wrong was the name of the event...
[snapback]8590[/snapback]

This is true. However... stfu. D:
"A graph of cf's coolness as age increases would be exponential." - Stefan [14:26, 2008/08/23]
"I now realise that CF is complete and utter win." - Cruizer [13:46, 2009/10/23]

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2006, 05:15:25 PM »
no u
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline Marth

  • The SA Player
  • TSC Profile
  • winxp firefox
  • Posts: 337
  • It's me! In all my polygonal glory! ^_^
    • View Profile
    • Mark's Site Thingy- 3-D graphics and game info
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2006, 10:30:27 PM »
I don't really care what's done with this, as long as the rules are clear and consistent.
Still... (most of this has probably been said before)

I think there should probably just be a limit of 15 for bells, or they shouldn't be allowed at all.
(The 25 limit is just like saying that only 400 rings can be taken from the bell on each run.)

Red buttons/switches are the same. It can be "only use each button once" or "don't hit the buttons".
The first solution is kind of flawed (which has already been said), but not allowing
the buttons at all would just about eliminate any chances of less experienced players
even reaching the goal and submitting scores. (in Lost World, at least)
Inactive member, but still... occasionally... checks his private messages and aging (former) records in SA.

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2006, 11:12:28 PM »
Hmm..., well if there are infinite Rings, there's an infinite Score count so Score and Rings are interchangeable in this matter, we still have to make limits or an elitist as well as a novice can still abuse, there's no looking twice at it. There has to be rulings on this issue. It's hard to say, but I am starting to see where effy and Marth are talking about, that ruling out the switches can remove novice competition and that they should be used only once but it's too hard to judge. Getting an extra ring is very crediable when dealing with the switches, and if you wanna count every single ring in the stage when trying to figure out how _____ got one ring more than in you Twinkle Park, have fun... Come to think of it, I say banhammer it... >.>
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline F-Man

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2006, 06:52:31 AM »
Quote
Getting an extra ring is very crediable when dealing with the switches, and if you wanna count every single ring in the stage when trying to figure out how _____ got one ring more than in you Twinkle Park, have fun...
[snapback]8651[/snapback]
I did this with a lot of stages. Sonic Emerald Coast as a total of 778 rings, Tais Windy Valley is 264 rings, some others I don't remember... I didn't do it with Lost World and Twinkle Park because I got the record (read: without using rings from switches twice) on my first try.

Though, when I did lost World, I must admit it was hard. I had a magnetic shield, so to not get the rings twice, I tried activating the switch from far away (by charging) but then the last half of the line of ring disappeared and I had to start over. On my second time through the level, I delibirately got rid of my shield and then had no problem. Maybe those stages should be removed. Because after all, using those rings twice is very very far from cheating (and too easy to do), so it's not fair to disallow it. Speed Highway and Casinopolis (knuckles) however, it's easy to just use the bells/machines to their max and then not use them again (and yes I know how contradicting this was).
« Last Edit: January 09, 2006, 11:40:38 AM by F-Man »

Offline SadisticMystic

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2006, 09:48:09 AM »
It's "possible" to use the Lost World ring switch twice in a run without "cheating"--but then again, it's possible to use it any number of times that way.  "Oh, I'm sorry, I got to the rings just as they were disappearing for the 34th time, and only got halfway across!"  If you miss the full light dash and fall down, there's a way around it that you can take, but even if there wasn't then you could just treat it as "a missed crossing is the equivalent of falling into a pit, so start over."

The problem I had with a 15 rule for Speed Highway was that I didn't have a procedural grounding for it.  I found one.  Rules updated.  The current rule is phrased in such a way that:
-5-4-5-4 loops are blocked (so are 5-4-3-2-1-0-5 loops, for that matter)
-5-4-3-2-1-0-0-0-0... is allowed to your heart's content
-5-5-5-stop as a method of collecting 15 is blocked (though unprovable)
-Casinopolis machines can't be loopholed for 36 instead of 11 (at least not within the rules)
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 09:49:15 AM by SadisticMystic »

Offline F-Man

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2006, 10:25:59 AM »
Awesome!

I think the rules could stay like this for a while with no problem now. If stages with ring switches become a problem (which by the way it looks would be sometime in 2011), then we could try to find a better rule or just eliminate the levels.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2006, 10:26:14 AM by F-Man »

Offline Marth

  • The SA Player
  • TSC Profile
  • winxp firefox
  • Posts: 337
  • It's me! In all my polygonal glory! ^_^
    • View Profile
    • Mark's Site Thingy- 3-D graphics and game info
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2006, 09:04:58 AM »
What's going to happen now?
The Knuckles charts were never taken down (which is sort of good,
because I figured out the trick not long before this thread was made).
I still have my score of over 600, and sonicam has over 900.
Is everyone just expected to replace scores like that when they
get around to it (as long as it's kind of soon)?

I found another little problem with the red buttons that I had forgotten about.
I got the Light-speed Dash ready while far away from it (in LW),
but Sonic stumbled* when he stepped on it. I'm pretty sure I didn't get any
extra rings, because I saw just one of them move toward Sonic, and it
didn't instantly get replaced. Still, I can't be completely sure that it
can't give extra rings when that happens. (It shouldn't matter, though,
unless a player gets just one ring more than another player, and one makes a difference.)

Oh, and while I'm talking about the ring charts for these levels, I
should probably just mention this now instead of starting a new thread:
There's some kind of glitch with Sonic's total ring scoreboard.
I saw that I was still way behind in the total, even after adding over 1200 rings.
I checked my scores, and they add up to 4973, even though 3618 is shown.
Then, I saw that sonicam had 5251 rings, even though the total of the other levels was 3132.
I thought that the total still includes the 999+ from when we used to get
super-high scores, and it'll keep it until the new ones are submitted, but
because my total is lower than it should be, it must be more weird than that.

Anyway, I should have 4973, and because he hasn't submitted
scores for every level, sonicam should have 3132.



*when a character lands on something small or unfinished and keeps
tripping over it rapidly instead of just standing still
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 09:07:22 AM by Marth »
Inactive member, but still... occasionally... checks his private messages and aging (former) records in SA.

Offline sonicam

  • TSC's Most Easily Irritated Member
  • If I had a (ban)hammer
  • TSC Profile
  • win7 firefox
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Speed Highway bells
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2006, 03:16:12 PM »
Marth: No, I have submitted everything. My Twinkle Park-Sonic, Lost World-Sonic, and Speed Highway-Sonic Ring records have been removed. I'm assuming it's because of new rule implemention but F-Man and you have records submitted. If you check the Ring Records page and check the levels I mentioned there are only 4-5 players in those stages, you and effy are of the 4-5 people. If you go to that respective chart, you see otherwise and different Ring records at that. It's glitched, I don't know how to really explain it. I have that total because my holes in my Ring Profile haven't taken into effect into my Total, nor have your TP-S, LW-S and SH-S Ring Records have taken into effect on your Totals. After this is all resolved that can be taken into effect.

Another thing. As we can see there is much debate on this issue. It is very easy to obtain extra rings in the stages. Hell, you can even miss a few and use the bell trick to obtain the ones you missed. I think this is bull shit. Infinite ring stages should be removed from the rankings, it's inevitable for someone to come and not abide by the rules and submit 999 Rings or a few more than the top player due to this trick. Yes, I used the trick that Marth and F-Man had to have used in Casino-Knux, but this issue was never an issue. I already said that my Casino-Knux Ring/Score can be deleted but if this is this much of a problem, just remove from the rankings. I think that's the best thing to do IMO.
Chaos Emeralds: Yellow, Red, Green, Blue and Purple.
Keys: Light Blue.


Click here to level up my card!

Offline F-Man

Speed Highway bells
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2006, 04:09:26 PM »
None of my scores used any of the tricks.

The Knuckles Casinopolis and Knuckles Speed Highway scores/rings that used the bells/machines have yet to be deleted.

The other three stages seem to have lost all of their players because of a glitch, because SM only deleted teh stats that used the infinite rings trick, but a few days later the number of players switched to 0 and when you try to see the charts (for Sonic) it brings you to the charts of the second character (Tails/Knuckles). Not to mention that the lost stats seem to still be counted in Totals. This really needs to be fixed.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2006, 04:11:08 PM by F-Man »

    Print
 

Hits: 323 | Hits This Month: 1 | DB Calls: 8 | Mem Usage: 7.04 MB | Time: 0.09s | Printable

The Sonic Center v3.9
Copyright 2003-2011 by The Sonic Center Team.