Greham Adelphis...


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Offline Bilan

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Greham Adelphis...
« on: December 08, 2005, 05:19:50 PM »
I have a few things to point out:

Greham Adelphis SAdva2 Egg Hammer Tank II Cream 0:06:97 1 / 30 12-08-05

Exactly how did you do this when Adv2's 2 Greatest Players by far have this virtually maxed at 8:3x?

Greham Adelphis SAdva2 Egg Bomber Tank Cream 0:09:91 1 / 27 12-08-05
Greham Adelphis SAdva2 Egg Totem Cream 0:08:51 1 / 26 12-08-05


Could you also please explain how you got these two?

Greham Adelphis SAdva2 Egg Saucer Cream 0:10:08 1 / 26 12-08-05

And with this, given the old record of 13:52 is quite possibly fake, kindly shed some light on what you did?

Thanks and have a nice day.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2005, 05:24:24 PM by RPGnutter »
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Offline SadisticMystic

Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2005, 05:22:23 PM »
All of Greham Adelphis's records in Advance 2 have been removed from the charts unless and until he explains himself properly.

Depending on what ensues, the records from other games might go with them.

Offline Bilan

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2005, 05:23:48 PM »
Quote
Depending on what ensues, the records from other games might go with them.
[snapback]8012[/snapback]

So I may have unnecessarilly put extra effort into S3DB? -_- I could've spent that 30 minutes or so doing something constructive like skiving from College work. >_>
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Offline Aere Alouette

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2005, 05:37:39 PM »
I apologize for those. A glitch happened in the XX Zone when I was testing that move where I attack with Cheese followed by a jump attack. As a result, the times for the original zones got hit by a glitch where the times froze on that same spot. I can't tell since my copy was a used copy and no info on the original buyer's returning was available. As we speak, I am trying the bosses out again to actually get times that are not glitched (I can't access Boss Attack since my skills at the bonus stages are absolutely nasty so I need to beat the second act of each zone).

This is the only game this happened with. None of the other records are fakes or glitchy. The reason I was able to get the championship on S3DB was because I was good at the game.
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Offline Bilan

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2005, 05:40:16 PM »
Quote
I apologize for those. A glitch happened in the XX Zone when I was testing that move where I attack with Cheese followed by a jump attack. As a result, the times for the original zones got hit by a glitch where the times froze on that same spot. I can't tell since my copy was a used copy and no info on the original buyer's returning was available. As we speak, I am trying the bosses out again to actually get times that are not glitched (I can't access Boss Attack since my skills at the bonus stages are absolutely nasty so I need to beat the second act of each zone).
[snapback]8015[/snapback]

Using XX Zone=No.

As the Boss have half health. Also that attack is not a glitch, your times however were. And the freezing timer you described is HIGHLY unlikely.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2005, 05:42:08 PM by RPGnutter »
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Offline Aere Alouette

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2005, 05:42:42 PM »
Quote
Quote
I apologize for those. A glitch happened in the XX Zone when I was testing that move where I attack with Cheese followed by a jump attack. As a result, the times for the original zones got hit by a glitch where the times froze on that same spot. I can't tell since my copy was a used copy and no info on the original buyer's returning was available. As we speak, I am trying the bosses out again to actually get times that are not glitched (I can't access Boss Attack since my skills at the bonus stages are absolutely nasty so I need to beat the second act of each zone).
[snapback]8015[/snapback]

Using XX Zone=No.

As the Boss have half health. Also that attack is not a glitch, your times however were.
[snapback]8016[/snapback]

I apologize again. Maybe you were right, but there is no rule in the competition rules stating that XX Zone times are not allowed. This wasn't so much a cheating as it was a rule misunderstanding.

I am really sorry.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2005, 05:43:50 PM by Greham Adelphis »
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Offline Bilan

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2005, 05:46:19 PM »
Quote
I apologize again. Maybe you were right, but there is no rule in the competition rules stating that XX Zone times are not allowed. This wasn't so much a cheating as it was a rule misunderstanding.

I am really sorry.
[snapback]8017[/snapback]

I do believe it states "No Easy Mode" in the rules and that "Time Attack Mode" must be used where available. Dont have it? Tough.

Also it amazes me how you could not of realised that the Bosses were taking less hits than usual.
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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2005, 05:47:47 PM »
When I got those times, I was using normal mode and not easy.
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Offline sonicam

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2005, 05:48:46 PM »
Oh, I see. You Boss Attacked the bosses using XX Zone. No, that can't be used. As RPG said, the XX Zone bosses start off with half HP so they get defeated faster. XX Zone-Normal can only be used for XX Zone to Time Attack since XX Zone is unaccessable in Time Attack Mode. When you are going to Boss Attack the bosses, you have to use the Boss Attack Mode and IIRC, Normal Mode end of Act 3 times are applicable. It's a small misconception since I believe he is right, the usage of XX Zone for Boss Attacking isn't allowed isn't in the rules for SAdv2.

EDIT: Calm down RPG. It's not that serious.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2005, 05:49:33 PM by sonicam »
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Offline Bilan

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2005, 05:53:18 PM »
Quote
EDIT: Calm down RPG. It's not that serious.
[snapback]8020[/snapback]

I am calm, I am merely taking great length to point out his idiocy because I am in a bad mood :D
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Offline Aere Alouette

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2005, 05:54:50 PM »
Also, both easy and normal had that same thing where the bosses have half health from what my game is indicating.
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Offline sonicam

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2005, 05:57:13 PM »
Likewise RPG, as in I'm in a bad mood too, a VERY bad mood. Lay off him, he's not cheating, he's not lying or anything. He just made a mistake, something that I can see pretty much can't be done here. I'm getting a little sick of the insolence, extreme sarcasm and deletion of records/accounts without warning. Don't call him an idiot. Come on, it's just not fair. Agh, this is pissing me off...
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Offline Bilan

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2005, 06:06:39 PM »
Quote
I'm getting a little sick of the insolence, extreme sarcasm and deletion of records/accounts without warning. Don't call him an idiot. Come on, it's just not fair.
[snapback]8023[/snapback]

Hey, TSC'd do the same for me :P

And I didnt delete his records, I dont have the authority
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Offline sonicam

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #13 on: December 08, 2005, 06:11:10 PM »
*sigh* Please quote me in my previous post where I said "RPG, I'm tired of your insolence, extreme sarcasm and deletion of records/accounts without warning". Can't can you? Well, that's cuz I never said that... I'm speaking of TSC as a whole.
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Offline Bilan

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #14 on: December 08, 2005, 06:15:55 PM »
Quote
*sigh* Please quote me in my previous post where I said "RPG, I'm tired of your insolence, extreme sarcasm and deletion of records/accounts without warning". Can't can you? Well, that's cuz I never said that... I'm speaking of TSC as a whole.
[snapback]8025[/snapback]

Well, as I'm the only other person posting in this now-farce of a topic, I assumed you were talking to me. And in all fairness, if a record is clearly a fake, just plain made up or achieved via 'illegal' means, I dont see on-the-spot deletion as a problem.
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Offline sonicam

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2005, 06:21:09 PM »
It was deleted without notification. I'm sure SM didn't say, "Hey Graham, I'm going to delete your records if you don't explain yourself." Nope, instead, poof, they're gone. I really don't want to get into my views of TSC's policies since I'll somehow come over as being wrong just for sharing my views, so why bother?
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Offline Bilan

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2005, 06:24:24 PM »
Quote
It was deleted without notification. I'm sure SM didn't say, "Hey Graham, I'm going to delete your records if you don't explain yourself." Nope, instead, poof, they're gone. I really don't want to get into my views of TSC's policies since I'll somehow come over as being wrong just for sharing my views, so why bother?
[snapback]8027[/snapback]

You cant really have 'wrong' views, everyone's entitled to an opinion dude
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Offline Aere Alouette

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2005, 06:50:45 PM »
I am not lashing out at you RPG since I really admire your skills, but here is my opinion:

If a rule was written in the "Competition Rules" section, then I follow it. There is only one rule associated with all the SAdv's. This one:

Sonic Advance 1,2,3
On levels which are not available on time attack mode, normal mode - not easy mode - must be used.

Since the rules didn't state that XX Boss times were illegal, I simply did what any other new member would do: submit records based on the rules (my mode was normal) and minded my own business. I even made a guide on how to make fast and swift attacks on the bosses as Cream under the idea that I was doing the right thing. As of this posting, the rule about XX Zone was verbal and not written. I was just following the written rules.
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Offline SadisticMystic

Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2005, 07:06:27 PM »
Go ahead and submit your full records, then (you haven't been disabled).  I'm still formulating the full, official wording of the rules.

Offline magnum12

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2005, 08:21:26 PM »
Here's a suggestion for the wording of the XX rule (if you like it).
"You may not use boss times (bosses before the last one) taken from XX Zone. Reason: The hit points for bosses in this zone are cut in half, regardless of whether a player uses normal mode." I think some rules (asides from the really obvious ones like no turbo device) should have a reason posted if the reason may not be obvious to new users, like the no two speed power ups in 14 seconds rule existing because of the nasty bug mentioned in one of SM's guide.
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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2005, 09:53:13 PM »
And maybe we can make the rule a Freestyle. It seems quite open for such treatment.
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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2005, 10:20:27 PM »
Actually, it probably wasn't listed because it was assumed that people wouldn't just use the XX times, as those would technically be counted for TAing XX.

It should probably be clarified though. Though magnum's ruling seems a little long...

I'd say...
Quote
Sonic Advance 2
Bosses Divisions
When submitting times for individual bosses, the sub-bosses of the XX Zone may not be individually timed. You can only time bosses in the XX Zone when obtaining a time for the XX Zone as a whole.
And I doubt Greham's freestyle rule would be implemented. Most freestyle rules are developed because of a common glitch or strategy in a level/group of levels that can allow for arbitrarily fast times because they take advantage of such glitches. Examples would include S3/Time Attack/Desert Palace (Where it is possible in parts to cross the lap marker while facing left without decrementing the time it seems.), the Sonic Adventure games (where apparently there's a glitch if you get multiple speed shoes too quickly), and a few others.

Actually, weren't we considering making the Team Blast Glitch in SH Freestyle only because it's kinda like that? (And I don't really know how to take advantage of it... >_>)
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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2005, 10:52:29 PM »
I can make one comparison between my freestyle suggestion and a previous freestyle rule:

You must play through all five characters on Mission 1 and Mission 5 of Cannon's Core, and you may not enter other levels in the process of obtaining a time. (Freestyle)

This rule is completely similar. Both zones (Cannon's Core and XX) have similar structures (individual sections where the time stops until the next area/boss has been loaded). Since both zones are of the same type, they should both get similar rules.
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Offline Rolken

Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2005, 01:53:20 AM »
sonicam, I designed the database such that "deleted" times don't actually disappear and can be easily re-enabled if found to be valid, so it's more like a challenge limbo state than actual deletion.

But aside from that... I'm not sure to what extent what he said is true, but so far as it is I agree with him. This forum deals with people we generally know little to nothing about; this topic at least is way too accusatory/mocking/triggerhappy. And if somebody's times vanish, they definitely should be notified as to why and how to rectify it.

Greham, that's not actually similar. In Freestyle you may enter other levels, but the final time obtained must still be on the competition level - the rule exists due to a series of bugs that can be exploited for remarkable times. Freestyle XX zone bosses wouldn't add any strategic value.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2005, 01:56:34 AM by Rolken »
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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2005, 03:03:09 AM »
I question whether Freestyle in general adds any strategic value.

Come on, nobody plays it, it's only there to stop the idiots from posting uberglitched times in the wrong place. And such uberglitches are covered in the rules anyway.

I say it's time to scrap the entire concept of "freestyle." It's an unnecessary space-filler.

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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2005, 03:12:52 AM »
Quote
I question whether Freestyle in general adds any strategic value.

Come on, nobody plays it, it's only there to stop the idiots from posting uberglitched times in the wrong place. And such uberglitches are covered in the rules anyway.

I say it's time to scrap the entire concept of "freestyle." It's an unnecessary space-filler.
[snapback]8041[/snapback]

But what about those 00ber sub 10 seconds CC1 times? D:
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Offline SadisticMystic

Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2005, 03:32:53 AM »
Freestyle charts exist for when something completely breaks a level, but when it's still possible for players to compete under the revised mechanics that have become the "best path".  There's a difference between 7, 8, and 15 seconds in Cannon's Core that can be controlled by skill, and the ability to do such things deserves to be worth a mention.

There are other mechanics that not only break levels, they put an end to competition when they're used.  Pause-B in the Genesis games, for example, makes it trivial to get 0:00 in any level, so it's disallowed.  Pause-cancellation in SA2 is another good example: if you pause on mission 2 at the exact time when you collect ring #100, then select Restart from the pause menu, you'll be credited with level complete as soon as you restart.  This would be a Freestyle-class trick and might be listed there except for one big problem: the timer just counts up as soon as you restart, with nothing further for you to control, and it saves your record as 0:08.25, every time you pull it off.  There's no factor of "I did it slightly imperfectly so I end up with 0:08.27 or 0:10"; if you pull it off at all, you get exactly 8.25 no matter what.  This leaves nothing to compete over.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2005, 03:33:55 AM by SadisticMystic »

Offline CosmicFalcon

Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2005, 06:07:17 AM »
Quote
I am not lashing out at you RPG since I really admire your skills, but here is my opinion:

If a rule was written in the "Competition Rules" section, then I follow it. There is only one rule associated with all the SAdv's. This one:

Sonic Advance 1,2,3
On levels which are not available on time attack mode, normal mode - not easy mode - must be used.

Since the rules didn't state that XX Boss times were illegal, I simply did what any other new member would do: submit records based on the rules (my mode was normal) and minded my own business. I even made a guide on how to make fast and swift attacks on the bosses as Cream under the idea that I was doing the right thing. As of this posting, the rule about XX Zone was verbal and not written. I was just following the written rules.
[snapback]8029[/snapback]

All bosses, save the final giant robot, are available in Time Attack mode (once unlocked). Therefore using XX Zone to attain submitted times is a violation of rules that have been clearly stated in the competition rules page for years.
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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2005, 12:02:14 PM »
Besides Greham, there are SP Ring guides on the site. :o

They're not that hard to follow either. :o
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Greham Adelphis...
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2005, 12:21:11 PM »
Quote
Besides Greham, there are SP Ring guides on the site. :o

They're not that hard to follow either. :o
[snapback]8046[/snapback]

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