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Welcome Center => News and Updates => Topic started by: Zeupar on April 10, 2015, 02:50:58 AM

Title: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Zeupar on April 10, 2015, 02:50:58 AM
We all know that speedruns that don't involve checkpoint abuse are, in general, way more impressive than those that do. For this reason, we are considering adding Mission 4 time charts to the rankings. We would allow submitting checkless Mission 1 times to said charts, as long as the player provides a video of the run. What do you think?

Anyway, let me seize this opportunity to try this new YouTube feature recently implemented...
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Nimrod on April 10, 2015, 05:52:49 AM
I really do like this idea, especially since that would mean we also get charts for deathless hunting stages. I got a few really decent times there and having a seperate category for these would be amazing
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: chainchump on April 10, 2015, 05:58:30 AM
Yup, mission 4 would be a great way to increase the competition for this wonderful game. You've commented on a few of my videos saying that checkless runs would be better, so you might as well make it a thing :P
Quick question though, if we submitted checkless times for mission 1, can we use the same stat for mission 4 as well?
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: CriticalCyd on April 10, 2015, 08:49:39 AM
I don't really compete in SA2B, but I always approve of checkless (b'w')b
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Gpro on April 10, 2015, 07:27:05 PM
If you ask for my opinion, adding M4s is completely arbitrary, especially since you can already do M1s checkless (pretty much every one of son1cgu1tar's runs, for example), and not having checkpoints is the only difference. I say they should stay as is. Sorry, this idea seems pretty nonsensical to me, lol
Also, there's a decent amount of ILs that are a lot slower with using Checkpoints

EditediteditIdontknowhowforumswork: Knuckles and Rouge M4 charts would be the only completely different runs, so competition for them would make sense and not be arbitrary like the other characters
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Vallkyr on April 10, 2015, 10:15:32 PM
Personally I don't like checkpoint abuse so I'm cool with this. When I finally get around to submitting stats for this game I'll be doing checkless aswell.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: FocusSight64 on April 10, 2015, 11:08:01 PM
It's hard to validate if someone does M1 checkless without a video. I would say if you really want checkless, go for M4 only. Don't allow checkless M1. Forcing video proof isn't a good idea.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: SqwareEcks on April 11, 2015, 12:02:09 AM
Totally okay with it.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: DGF on April 11, 2015, 03:11:44 AM
I'm always a fan of checkless adventure 2 speedruns. I find them more interesting to watch
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Nimrod on April 11, 2015, 06:46:24 AM
It's hard to validate if someone does M1 checkless without a video. I would say if you really want checkless, go for M4 only. Don't allow checkless M1. Forcing video proof isn't a good idea.

I think forcing video proof in this specific case would be good, since it doesn't invalidates anyone's run. Just in case someone already has a video of a run that would qualify, they could submit it, and if not, the run would still stand in Mission 1. I don't see how it's a bad thing here
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: son1cgu1tar on April 11, 2015, 11:20:09 PM
Really nice idea, but what about the speed shoes that are possible to be acquired by getting to a checkpoint with 80-89 rings ? Would this invalidate the run ?

Quick question though, if we submitted checkless times for mission 1, can we use the same stat for mission 4 as well?

Zeupar said that you can submit them as long as they are vidded
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: RigidatoMS on April 12, 2015, 04:59:52 PM
This idea is really nice, and I totally agree if checkless M1 don't be allowed (sorry, I don't know english that much). Just go for the M4.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: kirbymastah on April 15, 2015, 02:06:19 PM
I don't see the point of disallowing "checkless" M1. If someone just so happened to do every "segment" of an IL first try, you're implying that's somehow invalidated?

No checkpoint abuse for M1 is still different from M4 IIRC because you'd still get checkpoint bonuses (rings/speed shoes) in M1, but you can't in M4 anyways. I just don't see any point in banning "no checkpoint abuse" in M1.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: PsyMar on April 16, 2015, 06:10:40 PM
Rings/Speed Shoes are a very good point that should be considered when formulating the rules for "checkless" M1.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: bertin on April 17, 2015, 02:39:54 AM
This is probably the most arbitrary addition I ever seen. Honestly, with the site getting much less activity will it really do good to add even MORE charts to Adventure 2 even though the time charts are already big enough? If somebody wants to do checkless runs that badly they can just do it for M1 and show off their video and make a thread about it. Why make even more charts to fill out? and if we're going to play the "because it's more impressive" game. How about we add Sonic R "glitchless" charts to the IL tables since glitching out of bounds and spinning around 3 times is "not as impressive" as doing it "normally". Is it being more impressive to you the only real reason to add these? I'm sorry man but I'm gonna need more reasons than that to be in support of this. Now if you made this freestyle or something then it's whatever. If this is for points and such then nah.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Zeupar on April 17, 2015, 05:43:12 PM
this idea seems pretty nonsensical to me, lol

Well, apparently you are in the minority. :V

Rings/Speed Shoes are a very good point that should be considered when formulating the rules for "checkless" M1.

Hyper has correctly addressed that concern in a previous post.

and if we're going to play the "because it's more impressive" game. How about we add Sonic R "glitchless" charts to the IL tables since glitching out of bounds and spinning around 3 times is "not as impressive" as doing it "normally".

That's a meritless parallelism considering that Sonic Adventure 2 tracks both type of records separately, which is part of the reason the new charts were suggested.

Quote
Is it being more impressive to you the only real reason to add these?

No, as this topic proves.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: SB737 on April 18, 2015, 09:18:37 AM
I feel that they should be added, as they are tracked as an extra mission, so your time would be saved, and in my opninion getting a fast time takes a lot more skill without checkpoint abuse.
I also think that if you get speedshoes or rings from a checkpoint then that should void your stat, if you're doing wanting to submit a mission 1 to mission 4's chaert, as already mentioned.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: bertin on April 18, 2015, 09:40:19 PM
and if we're going to play the "because it's more impressive" game. How about we add Sonic R "glitchless" charts to the IL tables since glitching out of bounds and spinning around 3 times is "not as impressive" as doing it "normally".

That's a meritless parallelism considering that Sonic Adventure 2 tracks both type of records separately, which is part of the reason the new charts were suggested.

So? Sonic R tracks stats for every single character in the game and that wasn't added neither. You don't have to add literally everything the game tracks. I could go on about the other things sonic games tracks that wasn't added as charts. I just don't see why this should be added when the only arguement I've seen that the game tracks it and the only thing that would make it different is removing checkpoints. You can do the same thing in Mission 1
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: DRGNdrags123 on April 19, 2015, 07:09:02 PM
lets just use mission 4. That would be great for levels like knuckles so we have a chance of getting good RNG and actually be fair instead of dieing over and again. Also checkless Mission 1, id say no but M4 yea..
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Gpro on April 20, 2015, 10:04:29 AM
What about those who have submitted their M4 times to M1? I mean, yeah, it'd be rare, but I'm pretty sure most people who've submitted regularly to the SA2 charts have figured that M1 and M4 essentially go under the same rules, so that'd technically invalidate those stats (though it'd be impossible to tell which stats are and aren't valid at that point). Only ones that really would have a difference would be Knuckles and Rouge, but technically you could count the M1s done in a single segment as M4 times, because there aren't any checkpoints in their levels. The only real difference being the timer and the ability to segment and nothing more, which is a reason I really don't like this proposal (not to mention that the only way to know for sure is if you get video proof of the stat or a picture, to make matters worse).

I also would like to point out that TECHNICALLY, M4 times can count and fall under M1 anyways, as you can follow the same rules in M1, only difference being the timer and just being a different mission (with the same layout). In contrast, M1s have checkpoints (which obviously can be ignored but still would make it invalid as an M4 submission). Say, for instance, some smart allec comes in and beats his M1 time as M4 and realizes this. He might submit the stat for both M1 and M4, causing duplicate stats. People don't tend to read rules and look through holes within them, and this is likely one of them. Then they may be confused as to why their stat got removed. I believe that this may cause a pretty big mess, but, hey, if you guys can figure it out, by all means go for it.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: THC98 on April 20, 2015, 02:24:38 PM
My opinion about this is that we should just have M4 charts for hunting stages (Knuckles's and Rouge's stages, except Route 280), because these are the only levels that would have a completely different strat in M4. Creating these charts for the other stages would be pretty much pointless, as the strats are literally the same as M1. And also, keeping the charts for these stages like they are would help who can't be consistent enough at the game and needs to abuse checkpoints in runs to be able to compete with the ones that are really consistent (or persistent) at the game and can do great checkless runs.
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Nimrod on April 25, 2015, 08:21:45 AM
just saw we got the charts, that's pretty cool!

Just a question about the newly added rule "You can submit your Mission 4 times to both Mission 1 and Mission 4 charts". Does that mean it's allowed to submit the same run for both categories, if it qualifies for both?
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: SqwareEcks on April 25, 2015, 08:25:15 PM
Just a question about the newly added rule "You can submit your Mission 4 times to both Mission 1 and Mission 4 charts". Does that mean it's allowed to submit the same run for both categories, if it qualifies for both?

I'd like to make sure of this too. I have some vidded checkless M1s, but I'm going to wait to submit them for M4 until I know for sure it's not going to cause a duplicate stat issue.

I just thought of something else, regarding Cannon's Core: Due to the way the level is structured is it still possible to death abuse it on M4?
Title: Re: New Sonic Adventure 2 charts
Post by: Nimrod on April 26, 2015, 04:38:41 AM
I'd like to make sure of this too. I have some vidded checkless M1s, but I'm going to wait to submit them for M4 until I know for sure it's not going to cause a duplicate stat issue.

I just thought of something else, regarding Cannon's Core: Due to the way the level is structured is it still possible to death abuse it on M4?

Zeupar gave me the answer to this question directly yesterday, so yes, you are allowed to use the same stat for both categories

About Cannon's Core, no, deaths bring you back all the way back to Tails' section